Title says it all. If my devastator has a regular HB and a lascannon from master sig. weapon, would it be feasible to take both? Or is this just not going to work? Sure I can carry it weight wise, but...hmm...not sure.

fleshbearer said:

Page 208, left column.

Alex

Let's assume for the moment that I don't have a copy of the rulebook on me.

fleshbearer said:

Don't have one on me as well, but it's basically one 'main' ranged weapon (basic/heavy) + some pistols/cc weapons. Most people seem to miss/ignore those rules though and think players are only limited by their carrying limits which would easily allow hundreds of heavy weapons.

As a GM I'm OK with the players taking the occasional spare missle launcher to a mission - though it's stored in it's carrying case and rather hard to switch to in the heat of the battle.

One. If heavy weapons were sufficiently convenient that you could carry two, then everyone would have one!

I don't mind a player with a Basic weapon carrying a second one in some manner, but not with heavy weapons.

Rites of Battle: it costs about 40 requisition points to have a Chimera, 50 for a Rhino/Razorback. There you can store some extra weapons.

Personally, I let all marines to carry a gun, a bolter, and a melee weapon (a second melee weapon would be possible for assault marines, for example). To that, I let them add one any ranged weapon they can use, but they lose the "unlimited ammo" rule. This allows the marines to have some weapons for something else than direct combat, like the Stalker-pattern bolter, or the flamers, or a heavy melta. That way, I am sure all players have the same range (roughly, at least) and I avoid the incovenient situation of having half the table bored while the other half solve the battle.

Of course, they have to pay for the extra weapons with requisition.

Argus Van Het said:

A Servitor comes for 15.

Alex

One. More if you have servitors, vehicles or porters.

I'm in stitches about the idea of a marine having a servitor caddy follow him around with a 'spare' heavy weapon.

We houseruled that one marine can carry one main weapon (heavy, basic, pistol, melee) and two sidearms (pistol,melee) with him. This way my players are forced to choose their loadout more carefully.

One question related to this topic: Do heavy weapons require players to permanently hold them in their hands?

The situation that brought up this question was that our Librarian chose to requisition a lascannon for one mission (I know, totally inappropriate but unfortunately not forbidden). Now, during one mission, he wanted to put the cannon aside and ready his force sword and his bolt pistol. I ruled that one of his hands had to remain on the lascannon because it's too big and bulky to just dangle on a belt or something like that. After a long discussion, he complied, but wasn't happy at all, and I'm sure he still feels mistreated.

I tend to take the TT miniatures as rolemodels for Deathwatch characters, and there you never see marines with heavy weapons having even one free hand. I also don't think these weapons are built to be put aside when close combat is imminent, otherwise devastator squads would not need to be protected from melee foes.

What do you think? Am I being too harsh here?

I tend to rule that heavy weapons can either be stowed away to free up hands (in which case it takes a turn or two to get them into action), or that they're attacked with a strap and need one hand to be kept on them at all times to prevent them being dropped, or just getting in the way horribly. So a Marine can tuck his HB under his arm and keep it out of the way with one hand, and pull out a bolt pistol or knife in the other, in the event of melee. It gives a disadvantage to the heavy weapons, without making them cripplingly bad.

In the case of the above lascannon (or any heavy weapons), I would say that the power cable (or ammo belt) could be rapidly disconnected in case of an emergency, and allow the player to drop it (free of their person), and draw their weapons.

I imagine Astartes grade heavy weapons are rugged enough to not be destroyed by their own weight when dropped. These things are meant to withstand attacks from the enemies of mankind.

Still, one heavy weapon max on the person of an Astartes. I'm not against 2-3 basic weapons (within reason), especially if one is always in hand. Visually, look at the upcoming Space Marine video game. That character is sometimes depicted as having the boltgun holstered on the shoulder pack.

Now the big question, can a heavy weapon and a basic weapon be taken at the same time? I don't know personally. The sides of the ammo pack seem a reasonable place to mag-holster a bolter to, it just seems slightly cheesy. I had one player that was so paranoid about running out of ammo on his heavy bolter, that I allowed him to requisition a bolter and take it, if he left his bolt pistol and combat knife behind. Of course, he took a melee attachment on it as well, so gear wise he was set..

I'm slightly more lenient than the book. Each character has 4 slots. Heavy Weapons take up 2 slots, and players are limited to 1 Heavy Weapon at a time. So a Devastator could carry a Heavy Bolter, Bolter or Bolt Pistol, and a Combat Knife while the Assault Marine carries a Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, and Combat Knife. Common sense plays a part, too, since 4 Combat Knives seems a reasonable load but 4 Thunder Hammers is just silly. Slots can be traded out to carry extra ammo for weapons, more grenades, or other items like Storm Shields.

Siranui said:

Combat servitors... XD

Arkhan, I'd use the minis as guidelines, because the table game is not the same as the RPG one. When you send an army down, they need a minimun firepower globally, while when we are talking about players into an RPG game, the most important thing is to avoid any of them feeling excluded.

About the ditching of heavy weapons, I would bet for leniency... for everybody (enemies included!): any heavy weapon can be ditched as a free action if there is "self-contained" (no ammo feeder from a backpack), and takes a half action to take back (plus reaching the weapon's position if the character has moved away). If the weapon is connected to a backpack, then it takes a half-action to ditch (I was thinking about a reaction... but you can use a heavy weapon as an improvised weapon to parry, and you can always dodge, so losing the reaction would be... bad), and a full action (plus displacement if required) to set up again, reduced to a half action for the character if another "pays" a half action helping out.

I'd also rule that weapons with the "volatile" quality require a full turn before they can be fired again after being ditched and retaken, to avoid unpleasant surprises (or a Destiny Point to supress the "volatile" quality for two turns).

were does it say in the book about how many weapons you can carry. I have looked but seem to be missing it?

dean said:

Look on pg. 208 of the main book in the section titled "Carrying, Lifting, and Pushing Objects."

My own guidelines were relatively strict when it came to Astartes weapons. One basic or heavy weapon, plus sidearms/melee weapons. However, ammunition and other bits of gear were generally fine. I said that *technically* a space marine could carry more basic weapons but why would the deathwatch hand over that much gear? It makes the space marine in question ridiculously bulky and awkward. Besides, why ever bother creating combi-weapons if all a space marine has to do is take a bolter and another basic weapon? There really should be a "bulk" mechanic in Deathwatch, since weight isn't much of an issue with the ludicrous scaling.

thanks. I think I missed it because its not a rule per say.

It seems to me these rules are overly restrictive. I mean, a normal man today can carry several ak-47's slung over his back, if not comfortably. In addition it is not uncommon for soldiers to carry a grenade launcher or rocket launcher (RPG) in addition to his primary weapon. The main issue when carrying more is weight and fatigue, carrying a general purpose machinegun is heavy enough, especially over long marches.

Space Marines on the other hands have superhuman strength and stamina, they don't tire easily and are in addition supported by a powered armor - which almost moves itself thanks to the Black Carapace. Thus weight of weapons are irrelevant - the only thing that matters is bulk and how it may hinder the Space Marine's movement. The bulk part is limited by sheer space - a piece of equipment must either fit into a backpack, be held in the SM's arms, or be attacked to their belts and packs.

I don't really care for TT limitations, they are meant for model makers and simplicity rather than realism. I think the general rule should be, if the player can justify to the GM where he stores his weapons and stuff, then he is allowed to.

So max 1 heavy weapon or 2 basic, and +4 attached to belt (pistols, swords etc.). Sounds ok? If you think it's too much having a heavy weapon+ammo supply as well as a basic weapon I suppose you could assign a penalty to certain actions - WS tests, dodge, acrobatics etc. as the bolter on a strap bouncing around gets in the way.

I think my DH party has alot more guns than this anyway, dual-wielding swords and often have backup pistols as well.

DH characters though have smaller weapons =P

Have you seen the size of Astartes grade things? The trigger alone would have to be huge to compensate for their giant sausage fingers!

Weapons can be mag clamped to their armour, but it's the hinderance that stops them taking a bunch. Plus, marines do not have that mentality; they assign roles within their squads, and that's what they stick to. They're not 'jack of all trades', they're not conditioned that way. Their mentality is that they have a weapon, and they will kill stuff with it. The only limits here are practicality. So for example, a Heavy Bolter marine is always going to carry a combat knife and a pistol in case comes a situation where he cannot wield his heavy bolter effectively. If he can't fit through a crawlspace because of the backpack unit, he's sure as hell going to leave it behind to follow his brothers, or find another way around. In the former case, he's still going to need a weapon. A bolt pistol is not the best weapon available, but by weapon standards, marines go from 'Awesome' to 'super awesome' - there is nothing less for a marine's holy weapons!

As for the idea of emergency detachment, yes that is something featured in the fiction. However, it is likely a hinderance as it would need something around 2 Full turns to rettach it, as well as retrieve the weapon. So it's certainly possible to do! But do the drawbacks outweight the benefits? That's up to the player to decide.

As a GM, my armourer wouldn't allow such nonsense. Yes it's 'legal', but if my Librarian tried to take a Lascannon the armourer would likely deny it without very good reason. Such as the Team is likely going to be taking on a wall of battle tanks, and so he may as well throw his bolt pistol at that Land Raider for all the good it'll do =P

Just my humble opinion!