I am trying to clarify the rule regarding encumbrance, backpacks and carrying items.

I've decided on the following

Backpacks (because of their sturdiness) can carry up to 20 encumbrance of items that would appropriately fit into a backpack. The backpack itself has a total encumbrance of 3.

Rucksack (because they are essentially cloth bags, drawn tight with a rope and slung over the soldier have a encumbrance of 4 and can only hold 10 encumbrance.

How does this sound to folks? Any suggestions?

I like the idea but i think 20 enc. is way to much for a backpack when you conseter a str 4 character can only hold 20 enc.

i would say backpack can hold 10 and the rucksack maybe 5

But encumbrance for an item is not just weight, its also "wield-ability"

So a backpack can hold 20 things that are "back-pack" size and of light to med weight. Candles, books, lantern, a dagger, etc. And a backpack is behind you and out of your way so its encumbrance is 3.

For example, I'm wearing an empty backpack, I can walk, run, swing, etc. Little to no affect on my actions. I fill it with 20lbs, and it doesn't really change. However, I fill it with 40lbs, and I'm exhausted lugging it around at the end of the day. More and I slow myself down. However, I can still walk, use my hands, etc.

A rucksack is a bag with a rope. Things are not placed inside neatly, they poke, they poke - thus the amount it can hold is lower..

I'm even thinking that a "afflunent" backpack is one that can hold more weight, or maybe less encumbrance that a normal backpack, because it of better design, shoulder and chest straps, maybe a waist belt, etc.

But you may be right I may be being too generous, its just that I'm thinking things that go in a backpack are usually smaller items, but there's still going to weight a pound or two

Hi,

I agree about the wield-ability thing your suggesting (carrying candles, books, a lantern in your arms all the time is going to look pretty silly as well as being awkward). But even 20lbs in a backpack will affect your ability to run and jump, it wont stop you from doing these things but it will have an affect. Maybe allow a characters str value in encumbrance to be stored in a backpack for free?

Why do you make a difference between a backpack and a rucksack. Rucksack is just the german word for backpack nothing else, you could name it "beutel" or "Umhängetasche".

I made rucksack different from backpack, because rucksack is available as a poor starting item, therefore different that then backpack available to the higher tiers, plus it say cloth rucksack -

I do like the idea of a STR multiplier for overall encumbrance.'

BTW - I also realize I'm thinking too much about this

In our last campaign we didn't use encumbrance at all. I would like to use it in our next campaign but I'd also like a system that isn't too annoying.

a Gallows said:

For Warhammer I've created three customized dependant conditions that I plan on applying depending on how the individual is laden. Festooned for folks wearing every weapon/pile of armor/billious robes and fancy top hat. Hampered for people that are trying to lug something bulky around like a corpse or a straw mattress. Overburdened for people that are filling their pants with gold bars and sprinting about town.

Yeah I think I'll just do as usually in the end. Ignore encumbrance unless it's relevant and important. I'm just slightly annoyed about the boatman special ability...

I recognize as a GM, I'm a bit anal-retentive, but I believe tracking encumbrance, ammo, gold, etc is important to the game and even important to story telling. I find it very interesting to see how an archer plays his game when he realizes he only has six arrows left. Or to watch a group argue how they're going to carry the lightening stone across the swamp, "I'm not giving you my sword!"

I had a dwarf start charging other players to lug things around.

And having limited funds will get people to react to things differently. I charge people 5B a day for food & drink. And its interesting to see how people react when money gets tight.

That's why I have a focus on resource management, because i think it can create fun. BUT, in many cases I'll do much of the tracking. That way it doesn't become an accounting exercise. When I can I use real money for money. Or counters in bags. Bit of LARPing when people pull out the bags to pay for a brew. I use cocktail toothpicks for arrows and give everyone a little wooden quiver to keep them in. (silver marbles for slugs) It brings a little bit of fun to the game.

Sorry if I seemed too pithy and "bah encumbrance" Doug. I think that it definitely matters how PC's track and manage resources and equipment. Your toothpick thing is officially stolen now by the way. I think the rub for me lies in the types of penalties and when they are typically applied. WFRP 3E's system is definitely in my wheel house. It's just hard for me to not start dividing encumbrance ratings up into fractions for stuff I think matters...or simply falling into my typical rut of deciding on encumbrance penalties. This isn't about me and my lame brain musings though. On to some spit-balling about backpacks within the system!

In terms of backpacks I think simple is going to be better when taking the system as written into account. A typical sized backpack should be able to store 5 encumbrance like No.12 said (mostly due to space and to keep it more in line with storing a 1/3 of a STR 3 character's load).

The pack quality could either make the backpack have an encumbrance of its own or help distribute the load more evenly. Maybe poor is +1 encumbrance, common is 0 encumbrance, and superior is -1 encumbrance as it not only stores your gear but makes it a bit of a pleasant experience (you can't really use these modifiers to increase the capacity of the backpack since it should be more or less standard in size).

You could then add larger or smaller bags and just kind of fiddle with modifiers accordingly? Or...hand wave it

Furlong Doug said:

LOVE the toothpick idea too

Furlong Doug said:

Bah... how dare you post such a great post about why tracking these things can add to the game. Now I HAVE to find a system, that works well and is easy to use.

I already implemented real money (plastic... I have bronze, silver and gold... and a lot of them), so that didn't have to be tracked.

My GM (GullyFoil on these boards), uses Paizo's item cards , with a little note taped on the back with Encumbrance, as well as any stats (for weapons, etc).

It fits in well with the already existing cards for special equipment, it makes "what do you have on you right now" very clear at any given time, and it makes tracking encumbrance a breeze.

It works so well, I'm working on integrating them into the game I run.

Doc, the Weasel said:

Looks interresting, but how do they look, it isn't made for WFRP right? Took a look at that Pazio stuff and ordered the Plot Twist cards... they look very interresting

Gallows said:

Here's some from the item site.

The item cards are fabulous imo. I never found them too useful in Pathfinder, but for WFRP I have been planning on using them to track items like Doc's group.

I am also going to use the newest NPC cards Paizo makes to go along with the contact system I've jimmy-rigged together so that the PC has a cool lookin' picture and a place to stick pertinent info for the person they've built.

Oh, man, those portrait cards are a godsend. Running NPC heavy adventures like Eye for an Eye and Edge of Night are so much easier when you have actual faces. I've worked them into my process of how I write scenarios to some success.

Gallows said:

Where did you get these from then?

Sausageman said:

Gonge.dk - it's money used at schools, so it's danish coins (50 øre, 2 kroner and 20 kroner), but they work just fine. I have 200 of each, but I'll buy 200 silver more to have 100 for each player, so everyone can have 99 before changing to a gold.

Gallows said:

I looked at the site, seems like a great way of adding money to the game. Just have to ask are the money plastic? It looked like it on the site.
Also, it seemed as they were only shipping within denmark or did I missunderstand?

I'm not anal about encumberance, but I do enforce it in general, especially with . Otherwise, you'll end up with PCs wearing full plate, weilding and/or carrying 4 or 5 weapons, plus a backpack full of several ropes, bedrolls, weeks for of food, various kits and tools, etc and so on. IT makes the players make hard choices in their gear. If they want full platemail, then they need to have a horse or someone to carry everything other than a weapon or two (unless they are a dwarf). If they want to wield two axes, then they probably cannot also carry a longbow and several pistols, etc. Or, they will need to select which items to carry when they go out, etc.

k7e9 said:

Yeah it's plastic, but fairly good quality. Not painted plastic, but the colour is in the plastic.

Gallows - where do you find the coins? I've been looking for stuff like that for weeks and can only seem to find phony gold pirate coins.

Furlong Doug said:

www.gonge.dk - I don't know if they ship outside Denmark though... but if not I'm sure something can be worked out.

The pictures show mixed coins, but the box contains 200 of the same kind.

Gold

Silver

Copper