So, I've been running a Deathwatch game for a few months now, and I've been trying to run it as close to "by the book" as I can. However, there is something I'm confused/concerned about with cohesion.

Between the additions in Rites of Battle and the Errata, there is no upper cap on the number of Cohesion points a unit can have. Meaning, they start with a number of cohesion, as generated by the squad leader, and then can move up from there. The squad generates cohesion upon completing a mission objective, performing a significant act (killing a big boss type, for example), anyone spending a fate point, or for roleplaying the developing bonds of brotherhood significantly.

I'll admit, I've barely given anything for the last one, and my group is a bit larger than normal (8 players, as opposed to 5-6). However, it is not unusual for the group to be running near 20 Cohesion points. Especially since repeat activations of Squad Mode abilities don't take up extra cohesion usage beyond the first (or beyond the first per battle). Any threat to Cohesion damage (devastating weaponry, which is very rare in the books, blast, or fear) can be mitigated with a command roll, and is limited to 1 cohesion per round.

Now, it hasn't been a huge problem. I've been managing to put them under threat and keep the moving anyhow. But I can't help wonder what is the point for cohesion when it is so easy for the group to stay effective, and keep the pool above 10 points anyhow (making any cohesion tests an auto-success). Am I missing something? Do people do it other ways? Do you just throw in more blast/devastating weapons against your space marines?

What should even be happening once Cohesion is lost? I don't recall seeing anything in the book for penalties for Space marines losing cohesion completely, aside from no more squad mode abilities. But even then, spend a few fate points, and do a few secondary objectives and they're back on track.

Delahunt said:

That's an area of contention. My own common sense reading is that the team gains Cohesion from fate points *only* when a FP is specifically spent to gain a point of Cohesion (with a +1 bonus if it's the leader and they have a back banner). Otherwise the team will be getting (number of players) x 3ish Cohesion per session via this means, which utterly eclipses other gains (as well as starting amounts) and is pretty crazy. With your own group, they're getting 24 Cohesion per session for gratis, which is probably the root of the problem. Consider why the squad would work better as a team if one of them tried really hard to dodge something (and blew a luck point on the roll). Doesn't really make any sense, does it?

Being out of Cohesion means no more squad mode abilities, and everyone is in Solo mode. It also has an effect on Fear, as I seem to recall.

Logically, I agree with your argument. However, the book's wording is "Any time any member of the kill team spends a fate point"

The word Any sadly gets rid of with the specific intent to refresh cohesion, or that the Space Marine in question has to be in squad mode. In general, I think Squad Mode is the worst designed part of the game (great idea, bad execution by comparison with the rest). I do like your fix for that, which can work.

However, there's also the text under back banner which indicates that 'when the killteam leader spends a fate point to restore a point of Cohesion...' and references p212. It's indicative that there's missing text on 212 along the lines of '[Any member of the kill-team spends a fate point] to restore a point of Cohesion' and on the 'what I can do with Fate Points' page. From what I understand, squad mode was added fairly late in the game, so it looks like there've been typos.

Also take a look at the Exemplar of Honour talent and consider the context. It would be a pretty poor talent under the ruling that gives +1CP with each FP spent for any reason, but makes sense as a talent under the 'spend a FP specifically to get a CP back' ruling.

It seems to work better that way, and keeps Coh as a precious resource. The alternative and generous version just renders the entire Cohesion system pretty moot, and gives the team insane amounts of the stuff.

Siranui said:

When facing fear causing enemies only the leader makes a wp test (modified by fear lvlx10). If he fails the squad takes cohesion damage = to fear lvl. If passed nothing happens to the squad. Any marine in solo mode though faces a -10 Wp per degree of fear of the highest fear lvl entity they are facing.

Delahunt said:

No, it has been settled. I have been asking FFG and received this reply from Ross Watson on Jan 14th:

Q: Does every Fate Point spent restore 1 point of Cohesion or only a Fate Point spent with the dedicated purpose of restoring Cohesion?
A: Every fate point spent with the dedicated purpose of restoring Cohesion.

I subsequently posted it in the errata thread, it's as good as official, expect it to be part of the next errata update.

Also do no not forget that many non-Sustained abilities have a limited duration and need to be paid each time of activation, not just once per battle. This is from the errata:
"“Some non-sustained Squad Mode abilities have a duration different than single combat and are indicated as such. These abilities can be activated multiple times in the same combat, provided the full Cohesion cost is paid for each activation. ”

Alex

Rights of Battle goes against that I think. I read something, at the very least, that basically said you pay once per battle, but additional uses that fight would be free.

Delahunt said:

RoB has been repeating essentially the wording of the Core Rulebook and as such is based on the totally messed up squad mode rules presented there. I am pretty sure that at the time RoB had been send to the printer this had not been realzed as an issue. Anyway, I posted the answer on Jan 14th, it's as official as it can get without a new version of the errata, you get to choose what to make of it for yourself.

Alternatively, you or someone else could inquire again for confirmation.

Alex

For now, I think I'm going to stick with the once per battle method and see how it works. Thank you for the clarification on how Fate points for Cohesion works. Several of my players are more nervous about how hard some fights will be now, but all are happy with cohesion not being a joke.