Hello all.

I now consider, in my rewritten version of The Emperor Protects, to use
Khornate daemons to hamper my group of DW marines. My choice have fallen on
Bloodletters. I sorely need the upcoming Mark of the Xenos, but as it hasn't been
released yet I now ask anyone brave enough to answer the thread question.

What would be the attributes of these red devils and their equipment (hellblades)?

I am very thankful for all useful answers.
This is perhaps a *bit* harsh on the PC's, and if you think so, please state why.

It's only harsh to PCs if you stat them above the level they're going to be when they encounter them.

Bloodletters are detailed in DH, and the hellblades detailed in Ascension under the Herald of Khorne entry. Neither are terribly frightening to a DW marine, though could probably be buffed up without too much trouble. The hellblades in Ascension are really just big non-primitive swords with pen 2

Personally I'd steal stats from existing TEP NPCs for balance reasons, but give it a fluffier description. The description of hell blades for example has them cutting through armor with ease, right, so razor sharp that some of the genestealers have seems quite fitting.

Are you looking to use them in hordes or more as elites or the like? Maybe make the Herald a particular 'named' enemy to let him slip into the upper elite or lower master class?

Charmander said:

Thanks for a very good answer! I should've written "Is it harsh?", but I assumed a lot people thought it would be on DW marines (who are somewhat beginners). I have Dark Heresy (never played it though) - I'll have a look. Are they in Creatues Anathema? Ascension -what's that? Excuse me for being a nincompoop on these matters. I'd rather also want to beef the Bloodletters up.

This is what I think of TEP: (SPOILERS) I don't like the overuse of Tyranids in almost all the DW scenarios. Ok, the Hive Fleet Dagon is rampaging through this sector, but there has to be other threats. So, my line of thought goes like this: I switch the genestealers for Flesh Hounds, that the people of Aurum use as hunting dogs (through the influence of chaos advisors). The PC's going to meet those for the first time during the hunt for the beast.

The people of Aurum have sunken so deep in the worship of the God of the Murderous Hunt (as Khorne is known here), so they are contemplating on summoning the God's guardians (Bloodletters) to protect the village - without knowing what they invite. This goes on without the DW PC's knowing anything until it's almost too late.

I found some houseruled stats for Bloodletters in an earlier thread, and it also pointed to the DH core book. I'll compare the homebrewed ones to the DH book. http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=213&efcid=3&efidt=416546

dracopticon said:

Bloodletters are in the core DH book in the back. Ascension is the book that covers levels 9+ for DH characters.

dracopticon said:

It will definitely change some of the encounters and themes of the adventure. Probably a lot less tolerance or remorse from the characters as they bulldoze the planet. What are you using as the beasts that have been 'trapped' in the village? What is their motivation in summoning the guardians to protect the village- protect them from what?

Also, FWIW, check all of TEP (and the core book that details the Reach), Tyranids only a part of the book, and only make up like half of one adventure (that first adventure focuses on a lot more than fighting genestealers). Also remember that the Ordo Xenos tends to focus on xenos, and to play within 'canon' to engage in chaos needs the right motivators (which isn't that hard as the DW in the reach are charged with watching over the Reach, not just stopping Xenos)

Bloodletters are quite capable of being a threat to marines as they are shown in the dark heresy book. Unless of course you want minion lvl enemies capable of one-shotting your players, devolving your game into a either you kill them the second they show up (target shoot) or you die. A Marine is (and should) be better than a single bloodletter.

The bloodletters can reliably deal damage to marines. Granted your avg rolls will net about 3-8 damage just remember: marines only have 18-20ish wounds. In a fight with a large number of bloodletters these small hits add up. Either your players confront them well or they will be down a few wounds when they get to their next encounter. The idea behind minions in a game aren't to kill the players out-right but to hurt them, slow them down, and add dramatic effect. Buffing a bloodletter to deal 30 points of damage ignoring armor isn't dramatic... its annoying. If you have 5 marines, throw 12-15 bloodletters at them. As long as you don't just put them out in the open where the players can just gun them down at long range they should be putting some damage onto your players. Then your players will start to feel the pain, they will know they can't keep getting picked at by these little guys or when they get to the final confrontation they won't have very many wounds left to win it.

herichimo said:

I think it depends on what you want your Bloodletters to be- if you want them to be little more than speed bumps leave them alone. If you want them to justify their fear rating I'd consider making fewer of them and bumping them up in some way, shape, or form. I think it also depends on if there is an apothecary in the group (as the apothecary will negate most of the encounter anyhow).

As individuals that average bloodletter is doing closer to 0-2 wounds (average damage 16 pen 4 with the axe or 10 with the claws that ignore armor - max 25/15 respectively, dealing 7 or so damage). Add on that they only hit roughly once every other turn (poor Weapon Skill but have swift attack) and have 60% chance of being sucked into the warp when not being actively damaged or dealing damage. My players aren't scared of that.

If you horde them up they're considerably more threatening (to the point I think you were getting at) where they would be doing 4d10+5 pen 4 with their axes- which would be quite painful to most Marines, and much more of a threat than a simple dramatic encounter (dead in 2 rounds rather than in over 10).

Personally I'd go in-between, buff their WS, buff their damage or toughness a smidge, then keep them as individual attackers and put them somewhere in between a horde/speed bump but less than an Elite (save that for the Herald).