A breath template covers 12 spaces and currently is one of the wierdest weapons when it comes to LoS rules in the game. Since Shadowcloak exists to "interfere" with it's effectiveness it now finally appears to have been given it's first weakness, other than it's limited range. As long as one space started adjacent to the figure using a breath attack, and each space affected carried on in a "legal" line of site, this weapon could be far more useful in terms of guaranteed 12 space range (barring miss) but restricting it's AoE to a straight line reducing it's effectiveness against groups when not spread out, but giving a kind of "focused"attack that can still be "spread out" to the amount of spaces left available after reaching range (attacking figures choice) like a fireball blast or long range short spread. It would also take away the "shoot around corners" ability it currently uses which I'm sure gets questioned as to it's "strangeness" by more than just my group (though this did make the breath far more effective and far less limited). While it seems like "Blast" this way it really isn't. Rulings could be included to make the flame always "flare" out in a pyramid when the attacker has reached the desired range, but always away from the origin of the attacker (for example, couldn't send it six straight forward, then six diagonally backwards, and spaces couldn't be "doubled" up)

Just a random idea, probably a bad one, if I was making alterations to the game for fun (obviously taking it far from it's current play style), I'd likely change it to something like this, with very little tweaking it would work better for more of a "dungeon" crawl version using Descent.

Shatteredragon said:

What, because it ignores LOS completely ?

Shatteredragon said:

Hmm yes, I should have said, given it's first weakness against a creature that can't be harmed by it unless adjacent, although Ironskin also give it weakness, though it only came up last game. What I did notice is that all "weaknesses" to the weapon appear to only really apply to monsters who have breath, or very early low level starting heroes.

I totally understand why they removed the "requirement" for using the Breath template on monsters that had Breath as strategically according to the old rules it did give creatures with breath significant disadvantages. Though it makes sense. In any other game I've dealt with flame breathing creatures usually did have the option for full flame "spread" (ie; the Breath template) or a "focused" breath against one target.

As to having multiple weaknesses, add the right skills, toss in a few "supporting" other items, and the damage on this weapon can outclass most other weapons (especially since it has the ability to hit multiple targets in one attack).

Max Damage:

Copper Level Monsters: Hellhound: 3/Master: 4 and Dragon: 6/Master: 7 (pierce 2 normal and 3 master for both hellhounds and dragons)

Silver Level Monsters: Hellhound: 5/Master: 7 and Dragon: 8/Master:10 (pierce 3-4 for both monster types, white to red)

Gold Level Monsters: Hellhound: 6/Master: 9 and Dragon: 9/Master: 12 (pierce 4-5 again for both)

Diamond Level Monsters: Hellhound: 8/Master: 11 and Dragon: 10/Master: 13 (pierce 5-6)

Not great, gets better with time if you can afford it, more especially if you choose Beast as your class. Not too damaging at all I have to admit, even with pierce), an average weapon that with luck can do a nice powerful hit, obviously better in outdoor Encounters where it can be buffed with threat if one can get eneogh to make it matter in time.

On the other hand:

Copper Level Campaign:

Copper Rune: Cone of Fire: Non-Magic: 5/Starting mixed Magic User: 6-7 (depending on starting power die)/Starting Magic User 8, pretty light, not the greatest damage.

+1 for copper treasure Other: Mana Weave, +2 for Skill: Prodigy, +1 from Skill: Inner Fire, +2 if it's Landrec the Wise, and for highest starting (non promotional) Heroes, +12 from any combination of power potions drunk, stamina spent, or upgrade die added. Absolute Max at copper level, 26, though most likely only once in awhile per dungeon, unless the Hero has upgraded their stamina and power die. Then maybe comes up a little more often.

In my campaign currently the only thing above listed not in play in the Magic users hands is Prodigy, and the Hero is Runemaster Thorn so the max damage is currently around 22. Can kill all copper level creatures except the Golem (ironskin) and the Deep Elf (unless adjacent) as well as "most" named monsters in one hit at max damage, rare, but it can "clear" out a threatening mass of creatures in one go.

The only silver level monsters that would survive this hit are Dragon, Chaos Beast, Ice Wyrm, Troll, Giant, Demon, and Master Blood Ape, as well as the Golem and Deep Elf as mentioned above, and several more Named that would get the silver level boost, but they would be heavily damaged (ie; Furr could kill most on an "average" hit) and it's rare that the Breath attack by players is used as the last attack, which leaves several other heroes to do the finishing blows on anything still kicking, and most of the listed monsters would have between 1-4 wounds left.

Silver Level Campaign:

Silver Rune: Dragon's Breath: Gold Rune: Flame Strike: boosts the above max damage only to 25 (27 with Landrec) with all additions, a relatively weak upgrade in damage, and the add burn tokens ability would reduce the damage for any surges you sacrificed to it. This can be increased to 27 (29 with Landrec) if the silver treasure Other: Aldar's Mirror falls into the Heroes hands. (two other items total so far). So pretty much Flames Max potential at Silver Level can almost be reached before it comes around.

Bumping one monster class to gold at this point means the surviving monsters have a chance of surviving a Breath max hit (other than Golem). Dragon, Ice Wyrm, Chaos Beast, Demon, Blood Ape, Giant, Troll (about 5-15 wounds left), and the Master Ogre, Master Naga, and Master Deep Elf (if adjacent) with 1-2 wounds left.

Gold Level Campaign:

Still using the silver Rune: Dragon's Breath: (there is no Gold Treasure Breath weapon, or I've misplaced mine) this can be boosted an additonal +2 from the gold treasure Other: Ring of the Arcane bumping it to 29 for the majority of magic users, and 31 for Landrec, three other items, but there is a high chance to find robes in all decks, and even with the limitation on 2 Other items, the store carries the item Wizards Robe (+1 Other item) which makes needing to find one not a requirement.

Gold Level Dragon, Ice Wyrm, Chaos Beast, Demon, Blood Ape, Giant, and Troll would survive with 3-13 wounds left. (again Golem unaffected)

Diamond Level Dragon, Ice Wyrm, Chaos Beast, Demon, Blood Ape, Giant, Ogre, Deep Elf, Naga, Manticore, and Master Wendigos (except for Landrec)

In almost every case of maximum damage it can clear out alot more than just the Chaff, and it's ability to hit multiple targets at once, and with the amount of "small" and "narrow" dungeons that allow it to be used with great effect (much harder for the OL to spread out monsters). And on it's high damage hits can take out half the wounds of most larger creatures. It is alot more of a powerful weapon than you make it out to be, Obviously a person would have to have the experience and money to upgrade to these damage levels, and absolutely I agree with you, the weapon on it's own isn't that bad, but no Hero worth playing against doesn't "boost" a weapons potential damage as much as possible for a "super attack" that is only good for the OL if an X is rolled.

The limitations of range and LoS on this weapon were obviously added to compensate for its high "potential" damage. In the hands of the right person, who knows how to go out of their way to "super" buff an attack, it can be a devastating weapon, especially at copper level. So for all of it's "weakenesses" it's sure got alot of "strengths". And while any weapon can be boosted like this with the right skills and items, outside of Blast, Breath is the only one that can be as spread out and can kill much larger amounts of creatures in one attack.

I agree with you it's weak in the hands of Monsters though, almost pathetic by comparison.

Also I am well aware that this is "MAX" damage, not average, but the potential is there and I've seen these rolls and boosts come up, and the damages listed played on monsters wiping named and alike in one go. I am aware that these damages aren't even the max, with additional surges being available (in all cases 1 surge = 1 damage), and at least once feat that temp grants the Hero Sorcery 3 (and additional +3 to damage). These are weak weapons, but not in the hands of skilled combo users.