okay looking at the table for rank I am a little confused

rank 1 starts at 13000? asumming players start with having assumed to have spent 10k to make them marines and 1k starting exp that still leaves them 2k below rank 1 ?

Can people help clear this up

Rank 1 starts assuming it's taken 12k to make them marines, plus the 1k starting XP.

I think. Book isn't at hand right now.

Siranui said:

That is correct.

Think of it this way, for 12,000 experience you learned "how to be a marine."

Then you are given another 1,000 experience to show what you did as a marine that allowed you to join the Deathwatch. Be it chapter tithe and the captain didn't like you, you showed promise against a xenos threat and the captain thought a more detailed training would eventually help the chapter, or you caught the eye of an inquisitor and you were asked to go by the chapter master.

Congratulations you now have 13,000 experience (of which you only spent 1,000 on customizable skills/talents/characteristics) and are the FNG with Deathwatch. No, you don't get a Storm Bolter, you have to earn that right.

Or you can ignore it. Its only purpose is to try to show rough XP equivlilence between DW RT and DH.

So assuming a DH PC has spent 13k xp they should be on par with a freshly made DW PC.

It doesn't really work that well though.

SomVone said:

Other than the fact that the XP table starts at 13k and makes it difficult to ignore. And the part about the book describing your background as a combat veteran who has seen and done all kinds of things, and that 12/13k xp helps to illustrate that as well.

Although, it says a DH char with 13000 XP and an Ascended career path is approximately equal to a DW char if I remember correctly... My GM was making an assassin DH char to join our DW group for first game and I could have sworn he said 13000 XP still leaves the char a couple thousand short of being eligible for Ascended career path...

Mayhem1703 said:

From the Ascension book, Rank 9 starts at 13,000 (ignoring that the core DH goes up to 14,999), so there isn't an XP discrepancy here, though you should check the forums as to what 'equal' means- it's not clear cut (DH based characters excel in skills, Marines tend to be more killy, though Assassins, particularly Vindicare, will be closer to killy-ness due to guns and the 4-14 dodges a turn at close to 100%).

OK wasn't sure. This was for our first session and I didn't look at the DH stuff, he has it and was building the char, was just going by what my GM said. I was just replying to the xp cost portion, not so much the equal-ness, if that's a word... If not, contact Oxford English Dictionary, I want credit if the word ever goes in the book... lol

In fact the character that can laugh at the face of Space Marines from DH with 13.000 XP would be the Techpriest (extra points for Mechanicus Secutor), not to mention an Explorator from RT (who is already buying The Flesh Is Weak levels, plus AP 7 light powered armor in all the body), everybody else will feel a great discrepancy because of the marine's 19 extra organs, specially the Unnatural Toughness (or unnatural Strength for melee characters). Most likely a psyker could make a Librarian eat the floor if properly built, too, but I only looked into DH psy system, and it's different from the one everywhere else.

I made some time ago a Rank 14 Inquisitor (8 ranks of psyker, 5 ranks of primarys psyker and 1 rank of Inquisitor, with the Templar Calyx option) and I bet she is more than able to cut a marine in Terminator armor in two (willpower 73 and unnatural characteristic (willpower) plus psychic blade power: 1d10+(2xWP bonus) of damage, Pen (WP bonusx2) means 1d10+28 of damage with Pen 28...). Hell, I bet she can cut a Land Raider in two :S

Argus Van Het said:

I think that you are calculating the damage and pen wrong there. Unnatural WP doesn't flat double the characters WP for maths like this, just like unnatural Agi doesn't mean that a character with Agi of 50 has a 100% dodge chance. Damage should be d10 + 14 with Pen 14.

Perhaps you could argue that the unnatural WP multiplier should be added to both dam and pen (i.e. damage becomes d10+16, Pen becomes 16). This would be balanced and in keeping with the way the unnatural WP affects PR in DW.

Personally I don't like the way that DH psykers translate into DW so I think sisters and assasins make the best choices for ascended characters to join a kill team.

Well, in that regard I must say that the equivalent power in Rogue Trader changes to 1d10R+Psi rating with a Pen equal to the Psi rating. At rank 14, the inquisitor had a PSI rating of 10. More logical since all psikers will buy unnatural willpower ASAP...

Unfortunately, there is no equivalent power neither in Ascension nor in Deathwatch.

Anyway, while a Space Marine is so awesome, I think a "normal" character with 13.000 XP can make them suffer a lot, if not outright use them to wipe the floor. I didn't started to read the Blood of Martyrs, but just looking at one of the powers there (spend 1 fate point to avoid death: you recover ALL your wounds and damage, because the Emperor has plans for you...) to think the Sisters are more dangerous than any Space Marine :S

Argus Van Het said:

We're talking about them going into the world and being treated as allies, right? If you're looking for combat effectiveness, rather than ask 'can I cut a marine in half with my magic sword?' you should ask 'how does this character stand up against the enemies the marines will face.' Can you survive against a mag 30 horde where you have to do a minimum of 8 damage per hit in order to cause a mag of damage, and the horde deals 3d10+3 damage per hit, get's 3 attacks per round and each attack is semi-auto? Can you survive against an individual creature with 3-4 attacks that do 2d10+12 pen 10 and armor 10, toughness 12, and 80+ wounds?

Or better yet work with your GM and come up with a character that can get the same screen time as the Marines in the game, and maybe that ascended adept will be useful and fun to play rather than simply dead.