I recently took the master wargear talent and chose a storm shield.

My query is this:

As the shield is an item of wargear i get the "re-roll failed skill checks" benefit but it doesn't state how many re-rolls?

anyone read anything that clarifies this, otherwise what is the general consensus (i was thinking something like one re-roll per round maybe)

well you can't reroll a reroll, and normally you only get one reaction to use that shield a round...

What are you re-rolling? You can't re-roll parry rolls, because those aren't skill checks. The re-roll is designed to be for a single skill, dependant on the item. So a masterwork narthesium would re-roll medicae, a master-work scanner the relevant Awareness checks.

thought so, stil.. re-roll parry once per round is pretty frikking awesome :-D

Siranui said:

didn't know that, so you can't re-roll parry.

hm........ ok, how about using the armour benefit from master wargear (giving a +10 to dodge tests instead) as i suppose a shield could be classed under armour?

I thought that since the Storm shield was treated and selected as a weapon it would get the weapon bonus, which as I recall is +10 ws for melee? This could apply for parry tests - combined with the defensive bonus it would be pretty sweet +25ws to parry?

I don't have the book right here I admit can anyone check that?

Tellarond said:

it's +10 to Attack Tests with that weapon.

PS: cool avatar

sgtgrarm said:

That's right: No parry re-rolls with it.

I'm not sure how you'd get past the GM that a shield gave you +10 for diving out of the way, to be honest.

good point - can't seem to get thinking head on today.

Think i'll ask gm if i can use the +10 WS benefit as Tellarond & Arsonblakaster mentioned it counting as a weapon (makes more sense i suppose)

actually, screw that - just read the fluff and it's for attack rolls only.

Final decision - gonna go with the "any item" benefit of awesome machine spirit granting +2 initiative as this will help me move around at the start of combat (as an apothecary should).

You can reroll any failed test page 208 and Attacking and parrying is a test that can be rerolled.

p208 is the swimming rules.

Look on p126.

"Your affinity with this *device* serves you on and off the battlefield. Re-roll failed *skill tests* when you use this item"

It specifies device not weapon, so clearly is intended for non-weapons, given that results that are supposed to be applied to weapons clearly state that..

Furthermore, Attack and Parry rolls are *not* skill tests. There is no skill being used. It's a statistic test. The bonus is clearly supposed to be applied to non-combat kit, such as narthesiums, your favourite combi-tool, and other such stuff.

RAW, it clearly doesn't work. RAI it's clearly not supposed to work that way either, as it would then allow the player to re-roll every missed hit and parry, effectively reducing a skilled warrior's chance of missing with each and every swing and parry to 1% (10% * 10% = 1%), which is clearly both absurd and broken.

WS = Weapon Skill <----- SKILL

You could get the talent called "Blade Master" where you get to reroll your missed blade attacks

My comment was ment to thouse that said you could reroll WS or parry.

And yes I would say that any item you pick could get the wargear bonus listed on page 126 since all items are wargear even weapons.

but if you pick Wargear bonus for your Stormshield you only get 1 free reroll each round and if you have "Wall of Steel" talent then also gain a free reroll on that attack. Just like if you have the Weapon bonus for your sword you get +10 for every attack with Lightning Attack and not just on the first attack.

Sorry, but no.

It doesn't matter that it's called weapon skill, or how large a font you write it in. Please read p202-203, where it clearly defines what a skill test is and what a characteristic test is. The two are defined seperately in the rules. That's simply the way it is.

If you read the 'blademaster' skill it doesn't say 'skill test', because WS and BS tests are not skill tests.

Rules aside; you don't think it to be absurd to reduce a character's chance of being hit by an attack to 1%?

I'm not to proud to admit when I'm wrong.

What are your fighting? Cos what we fight in our campain you have to evade as much as possible. And you can't parry ranged attackshorde so what is the big deal?

I certainly agree that PCs need to 'get missed' as much as they possibly can within the rules. But it needs to be within the rules,it needs not to break the game, for the sake of everyone's enjoyment.

Giving a free re-roll on attackparry rolls all the while would make melee against genestealersother strong melee foes a bit of a walk in the park. And is a game where you know that nothing except a horde can hurt you in melee much fun? Games are about riskreward. If there is no risk, then there's no sense of satisfaction. And if the GM knows that your melee character is immune to being hurt in melee except by hordes, what's going to happen? Your GM is going to work around that to raise the risk again by using hordesranged combat all the while,you'd be getting annoyed with the game because you'll your melee character doesn't get to do what he's best at.

Break the gameeveryone looses, basically.

I know this is like beating a dead horse, but here it comes;

Deathwatch, Core Rulebook, page 203, Characteristic Tests, Table 7-2: Characteristics Tests;

It clearly lists Weapon Skill as a characteristic test. Based on that table alone, how can you conclude that Weapon Skill is a skillnot a characteristic?

Deathwatch, Core Rulebook, page 242, Parry;

...he can attempt to thwart an incoming melee attack by making a Challenging (+0) Weapon Skill Test .

The rules for parry clearly state the reaction is a weapon skill test,table 7-2 clearly states that weapon skill tests are characteristic tests.

I wasn't basing it on the table. I was basing it on the text which details what SkillCharacteristic tests are. A skill test needs to have a skill involved. Characteristic tests are based purely off characteristics. Attacksparries can't be skill checks as there is no skill utilised.

Siranui said:

You understand that I was agreeing with your claim that a Weapon Skill test is a Characteristic testnot a Skill test, correct? I was just pointing out the simple solution(s).

MexicanNinja said:

It's still a characteristic test, though. If it was a skill test it would have to say 'Challenging (+0) Weapon Skill Skill Test'. Think about the alternative: 'Challenging Weapon Test'.

Siranui said:

Again, I was agreeing with you about the test being a characteristic testnot skill test. I was quoting the bookthat was how it was worded. If you read below that quote, I stated the following:

The rules for parry clearly state the reaction is a weapon skill test, table 7-2 clearly states that a weapon skill tests are characteristic tests.

Yes, I understand that the parry test is a characteristic test not skill test.