As I understand the Techmarine can produce their own Artificer Armour (AP12) when they reach Rank 4, provided they pay the Signature War Gear (Hero, Artificer Armour trait) AND have reached Hero 'Level'.

I wonder is it the original Armour which is renovated and improved or is it a completely new set of Armour? My Techmarine happens to have the Trade: Armourer skill as well, just for the right feeling.

What would you suggest for the 'Machine Spritit' and its background (Rites of Battle)? For myself I think it makes sense to 'renovate' the existing, but since they are so completely different in AP and weight for example, it is hard to explain.

Also it costs 60 Req. on top of that in order to put it on? I have 70 Req. available to improve the armur, but what can I do with that?

Thankful for ideas,

No, the 70 Requisition includes the cost of the armour. So you have 10 to improve it (which I don't think will buy you anything), but you never have to bother with paying requisition for it in future missions. Basically you get a bonus 60 requisition every mission, but it has to be spent on the armour.

And truthfully, I might suggest you wave the other requirements for the Techmarine in this case. It is a unique, special case which kind of plays into what being a tech priest is.

borithan said:

What do you mean? I cannot see it as a bonus req., maybe if you compare with other classes, but do I have to keep track of these 60 Req. for every mission?

Bonus Requisition is perhaps not the best way to explain it. Instead of getting bonus requisition the relevant item is added to the Characters "Standard Issue" gear that they get for free at the start of every mission. It replaces the power armour in this case.

For a techmarines artificer armour itI would normally think it was made by them from scratch as opposed to an upgrade to their existing suit but it doesn't make a huige difference either way for the rules.

It's quite an upgrade, basically going from this guy

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440272a&prodId=prod1060065

to this one in terms of bulk,

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440272a&prodId=prod1060066

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440276a&prodId=prod1560028

The extra arms are the full servo harness and the cannon isn't included

Ok, I get it!

My question is also is the Armour is 'brand' new, do you still roll on the tables for background and Machine Spirit (2 rolls)?

Even if the armour is brand new, Artificer armour is stated to get the 2 rolls because of the armours powerful war spirit. (better software to you and me) so yes it does still get 2 rolls on the armour history/quirk table.

Some results particularly from the Rites of Battle tables wouldn't make much sense for newly constructed armour though so some discussion with your GM would be best.

When my groups techmarine got his artificer armour on Promotion to forgemaster (we ruled he created it as part of his masterworks proving his fitness for the role) he kept his existing armour history of which he was extremly fond and rolled 1 additional one.

Sorry, that wasn't the best way to explain it.

borithan said:

2 mag-lock holster things?

Or one and a built-in stummer?

Siranui said:

built-in stummer is an awesome idea and would really fit the spangly-ness of the artificer armour.

What is a 'built-in stummer'?

The double mag-lock is a good idea too.

Stummers are mentioned in the equipment section and normally cost 5req each.

Concerning the Artificer Armour, the description says that it's master crafted - are the bonii of being master-crafted already taken into account in the table?

JBento said:

Good question!

Yes: It's already taken into consideration.

There's a lot to be said for considering ALL Astartes armour already mastercrafted, and that being already taken into account in the stats.

Martellus said:

Techmarines have the ability to pick the best parts for themselves.

I wouldn't go with it being brand new so much as being a complete rebuild and customization using one or more older suits of armor for parts. The skill of construction lies in getting all these different components with different spirits to work together.

Siranui said:

Artificer Armour is already adjusted for Master-Crafting.

Other Astartes armours are statted for Common craftsmanship, just as are most stats given for Astartes weapons (barring Relics). I don't see 'a lot to be said' for making the assumptions to higher craftsmanship for armours any more than for weapons, so I prefer the default.

On the same page as the Table 5-13 Armour is listes is also a decription of craftmanship.

Armor Craftmanship (Page 165)
All the types of armour detailed here are of common craftmanship for the groups that regularly employ them. For example, the Astartes power armour entry details power armour craftmanshop that is common to the Adeptus Astates (although the actual craftmanship of Space Marine power armour far outstrips any "common" standard elsewhere in the Imperium), while a flak armour entry details flak craftmanship common th the Imperial Guard and general Imperial citizenry. Armours of better manufacture uses the following modifiers.

Exceptional: Well constructed and better fitting, this armour is easier to wear. Against the first attack in any round, the armour increases its AP by 1

Master: Finely wrought and perfectly fitted, Master-Crafted armour is like donning a secound skin. Master-Crafted armour weighs half the normal amount and increases AP by 1.

So since the listed armours are of common craftmanship to the Astartes arcording to the statement on page 165 then I would have said that the Astartes Artificer Armour has an AP of 13 and weighs 50 kg but just seeing the numbers it feel kind of silly. I would proberly say now that I've seen the actual numbers that there must have been an oversight from FFG.

yes yes, I did have a change of heart halfway thrue....

So the real question now, why do the power armous have weight since it realy doesn't matter. My space marine kan lift 2 persons in Astartes Terminator Armour. Maybe the powers armours should weigh 10 times more or 20 times more since it realy doesn't matter for the space marine who is wearing it.

For the sake of completeness?

Or in case you need to carry out a wounded comrade?

Well I just thought that it would be silly to have your marine run in and grab 2 Chaos Marines in Termi armour and dance around with them while your friends could kill them off. Or the fact that if you are out side you can kill them with falldamage.

I would also think that if my fellow battle brother got wounded and couldn't walk out I would have to drag him and not have him sit on my shoulders like a little child.

Check the errata for the revised falling rules. Its 1d10(+1*d), not (1d10+1)*d.

I consider the weights of the armour to be a little low, too. But on the other hand, if they were huge then power armour would be impossible to use in many scenarios, because you'd break or sink into whatever you're standing on. Enemy hiding upstairs? 'Fraid I can't deal with that, Brother: Those floorboards look a bit flimsy!

And yes: It would be silly for that to happen. Rules don't eclipse common-sense. Although there is absolutely nothing wrong in my mind to physically wrestling a chaos marine, picking him up and throwing him off the side of a suitably large building!

Siranui said:

Don't tell me you haven't seen that thread yet...

I know about the erata. I was refering to you being able to trow a guy in Termi armor 20 meters up in the air that will still be 1d10+20 damage. Thats just abit to easy. Maybe the throwing rolls should have a revamp.

The enemy could just thinking ahead if they were planing a trap where they knew that the battle brothers couldn't go with out falling thrue.