I suppose most of this question can be answered if I searched the topic's more thoroughly, but as I guess it is with some of you...Time is precious. Kids...work...wife...beer...You know how it stacks up.

I digress. . . .

Please post with as many tips as you like but One really good one will do :

WHAT IS A GOOD TIP ON RUNNING THE " .....SHILLING" MODULE FFG OFFERS AS A FREE DOWNLOAD ? ( just so you know, I have in my possession the Core Box, the GM Toolkit, the GM Vault, the Player Vault and the Witches Song module. Hoping to get the Player Toolkit soon.)

Thanks, Nom

I used this scenario to introduce system to my D&D group after I gave up on 4e.

None of them had read rules. I gave them a homemade cheat sheet that had (a) a single paragraph character guide on who they were (narrative fluff); (b) this information the follows

On Your Turn to Act
(1) Adjust stance one step for free, additional steps for 1 stress each.
(2) In any Order, perform a Free Manoeuver and an Action. Pay 1 fatigue each to perform
additional Manoeuvres.
(3) End of Turn adjustments (remove one counter from reach recharging ability), flip initiative
marker over to show you’ve gone this turn (turn it back when Initiative Order returns to top).
On Other’s Turns
(1) Use Reactive Actions when triggered (e.g., Block, Dodge, Parry attacks at you, use other
actions with Reaction label when triggered).
At Any Time Before You Roll - Spend a Fortune Point - gain or remove one recharge token or suppress an insanity (points = severity) for this encounter.
Each Fatigue or Stress > then characteristic = another [black die] whenever rolling it. Fatigue > Toughness x 2 = unconscious; Stress > Willpower X2 = passed out
Wounds > Wound Total = unconscious and convert another wound to critical. Unconscious + Critical Wounds > Toughness = dead.
Universal Effects Always Available:
Weapons inflict critical wound with Boons = Weapon Critical Rating and/or Comet.
2 Boons = +1 Fatigue (on physical action) or +1 Stress (on mental action)
2 Banes = -1 Fatigue (on physical action) or -1 Stress (on mental action)

On other side was a list of the maneouvres and brief description of them.

PM me your email address and I'll send you a pdf of it if you like.

The other thing I did was use coloured beads for fatigue (red), stress (blue) and normal wounds (green), with white ones for fortune points. They provided more differentiation than the cardboard chits.

In actually running, I explained when it came to getting the merchant to move that "this is like that scene in the disaster movie or horror movie where tide is rising but the fat rich guy refuses to believe it/leave his valise behind etc. and you have to get him to move".

Worked smoothly, it's now 21 sessions later and no looking back to D&D.

"Worked smoothly, it's now 21 sessions later and no looking back to D&D."

That is so awesome!

As to the original post: one big thing I find helpful to explain is that in D&D the payers make "Heroes!" on an "Adventure!"to slay "Monsters!" and find lots of "Treasure!"; in Warhammer you make protagonists in a complex story set in a grim and and perilous world. You can add all that in D&D (and I did for years), but with Warhammer it comes built in. For me it was a matter of my tastes maturing. So I always tell D&D players who want to try out Warhammer to think in terms of character not class. Story not adventure. Antagonist not monster. Reward not treasure.

Not sure if this was what you were looking for but hope it helps. Good gaming, and glad to have you aboard!

I made the mistake of not really reading through and learning the rules before running "A day late, A shilling short". It all became a great big combat which did not seem to end (since we did it wrong). So my tip would be, read up on the rules if you want to convince your group to switch to WFRP instead of D&D. We are still playing WFRP, even if the first game session was kind of crappy and the game is among the best roleplaying games I've played (and I've tried a lot of different games). The other tips given in this thread is also great.

I'll also ask an OT-question in regard to this:

valvorik said:

Is this a house rule? The "additional steps for 1 stress each" part that is. I seem to recall that there's a rule like this but I cannot find it in my books. Anyone who can give me a page reference?

k7e9 said:

In the core softback rulebook, it's page 57, left column, "Beginning of Turn Phase", the first paragraph.

k7e9- Your reply is my biggest fear. I have a vision of this being the game that we sit at the table and have several opportunities to forget the dice. Coming from DnD I fear the ease of falling into combat may be overwhelming.

Amani- This was exactly the reply I was looking for on one level. The rules are written, I can read them, but it's the mindset I hope to impart prior to game play that is key. I believe I will print out what you said and read it aloud when we start character creation.

Valvorik- Perfect marriage between your reply and Amani's. You gave me a way to wrap my mind around several of the rules I was worried about flubbing. I have posted a date of April 7th for the game at my local store here in Maryland and can't wait to see how the response will be.

So far , thank you all. I love counting on the gaming community for support, and you guys really pulled thru.

D&D compared to Warhammer

Nom said:

Not everything in Warhammer needs to be combat, either. Or an extended conflict, even.

I would say that Warhammer gives you more opportunity to roll the dice and trust in the results. D&D doesn't give you much support for what happens if you fail a roll that might still be an interesting result. Once you get used to rolling and letting the dice pool help you narrate the entire spectrum of how that result came to pass, your players will be itching to roll as often as they can. Rather than interfere and direct, the Warhammer dice help you tell your cool story.

Nom said:

The "A day late, a shilling short" is kind of combat focused, the other adventures are not however. Try to look at the demo adventure as an oppurtunity to teach the rules to the players, but make sure to learn them yourself first and you should be fine.

One tip that might help, is to sketch out for yourself the big picture in bullet points, and put it in front of you during play.

That way, every time you roll, you see all extra points that you thought of before the game.
In case of a combat that drags on and on and on, think of a few ways that this could be shortened, and put them on this paper.

Perhaps the party manages to kill of a leader of the pack that is attacking

Perhaps the attackers did not count on any real resistance and are cowards

Perhaps there are some of the members that are extremely clumsy and manage to incapacitate themselves or one of their number

You could allow the party a spot-check/intuition check to notice certain aspects of the terrain that might help them along (boulders, ditches, ...)

A roadwarden group could arrive on the scene

The whole party could get captured

etc. etc. etc.

I tend to avoid big combats, and when there are big combats, I tend to make them more abstract (rolling for groups etc).
I'm in it for the story, not the numbercrunching

However, as a GM, you should always know the rules, and have the adapted GM-screen that was on Hammerzeit among others.

As for specifically the "day late, shilling short" -> This should really be a simple introduction to the mechanics. What I did, was get everybody together, have them make characters, and simply play through this as simply and as straightforward as possible.
This makes for a short session, but with all the rule-explanation & character-generation as well, you'll fill your regular session-time quite well.

Nom said:

The combat in WHFRP is much deadlier than D&D, so this problem will rectify itself. The type of stories that the game tells are just plain different than a typical D&D adventure. Originally, WHFRP (and the Enemy Within in particular) was designed as a Call of Cthulhu game in a fantasy setting. If you've played investigative games like that then you already have a good handle on how WHFRP normally plays out. Amani was spot on in his assessment.

Eye For An Eye does a wonderful job of illustrating a typical adventure; the characters need to investigate and find out who their enemy actually is. Walking in and killing and looting just makes them murderers, and that should put a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Granted, some players are like that, but I do my best to avoid that kind of play and punish it accordingly (if I don't outright leave that group).

My main group's players came from D&D. One player in particular just couldn't understand that combat in WFRP is fluid and not just a 5'step-dance. Make sure that you tell your players about movement: it's assumed that you're already attempting to flank so just think of it as "either you're IN or OUT of combat."

jh

Amani said:

It's posts like this that scare me about jumping into WFRP 3E. I don't like narrative based games and "shared story telling" I actually like role-playing games and I was all excited for my order with the Player's Guide, Game Master's Guide, and Creature's Guide to get in this week.

What do you think a role-playing game is if not a project in shared story telling?

Cyber-Dave said:

There are all sorts of way to play role-playing games. Shared "story telling" is a apart but I bet my idea of story telling is quite different than yours. I don't like game narratives, I think most narratives are terribly designed and written by people who would rather be writing their own science fiction novel. I like a plot but really I like the story to be about how the players rolled back to back critical hits to kill the bad guy right before they died. That's the story I enjoyed. When I hear people talk about "narrative" games and ignoring the idea of treasure and things I get weary. I guess I'm a hack jockey but I don't like sitting around and pretending we are other people in this fantasy world. The world exists for our avatars to explore and have adventure in.

I come from a board game/computer game world. I want the game to be more like a board game with a persistant character that goes from "game" to "game" like a character in an online role-playing game or a online shooter like Battlefield 2.

Ulairi said:

Nothing wrong with that at all! There's no "right" way to have fun. That said, I think you may be better served with a game like D&D 4E which is modeled heavily after MMORPGs. You could certainly play the same style of game with WHFRP, but a lot of what makes the game what it is would fall by the wayside in that style of game. As much as you are loathe to admit, even a hack n' slash rpg has at least a threadbare narrative holding it together.

Warhammer can be just as "pre-written scenario" driven as D&D, what it's not intended to do is model "5 step combat" stuff or hold your hand on "how do I get an advantuage".

I see the use of "narrative" above as meaning "imagination and player description, player describe how you're jumping from balcony to attack the foe, thus earning a fortune die on attack roll, don't expect a pre-written table or 'death from above' feat to hold your hand on doing that".

The actual adventure you're in can be totally a "pre-existing plot to interact with". That's what the published ones are. For my taste, a good GM and a fun group of course "make mashup" of any published scenario as they come up with "their version" of that story, but that's true in any system.

Warhammer adventures published to date are "scenarios" and don't assume "joint control over plot". It's not "In a Wicked Age" or "PTA" etc. in terms of sharing narrative authority though it allows more sharing than some systems do if you are so inclined.

Ulairi said:

I appreciate that real roleplaying games where you play the role of someone else aren't for everyone.

With that said, the game you're looking for is Warhammer Quest. It's a hack and slash dungeon crawl that has persistent characters and a decent campaign system. Unfortunately it's long out of print but the cost should be on par with WFRP3.

Count Zero said:

Ulairi said:

There are all sorts of way to play role-playing games. Shared "story telling" is a apart but I bet my idea of story telling is quite different than yours. I don't like game narratives, I think most narratives are terribly designed and written by people who would rather be writing their own science fiction novel. I like a plot but really I like the story to be about how the players rolled back to back critical hits to kill the bad guy right before they died. That's the story I enjoyed. When I hear people talk about "narrative" games and ignoring the idea of treasure and things I get weary. I guess I'm a hack jockey but I don't like sitting around and pretending we are other people in this fantasy world. The world exists for our avatars to explore and have adventure in

I come from a board game/computer game world. I want the game to be more like a board game with a persistant character that goes from "game" to "game" like a character in an online role-playing game or a online shooter like Battlefield 2.

Nothing wrong with that at all! There's no "right" way to have fun. That said, I think you may be better served with a game like D&D 4E which is modeled heavily after MMORPGs. You could certainly play the same style of game with WHFRP, but a lot of what makes the game what it is would fall by the wayside in that style of game. As much as you are loathe to admit, even a hack n' slash rpg has at least a threadbare narrative holding it together.

D&D 4E I think is pretty terrible. I think WFRP has just as much from games as that but the setting is better and the table game is better. When I said video games I mean, I don't want a MMORPG in table top form, I just like the persistance that an RPG offers.

Ulairi, you get out of the game exactly what you put in it. Warhammer can be played as a hack and slash treasure grab if you so choose. So if that's what you want then happy gaming. Warhammer will provide a great system for you to adventure with; the dice practically describe the action themselves. I too find D&D terrible, at least as far as the system is concerned. I love D&D imagined worlds however and long for the day when I have enough time on my hands to create a Dark Sun or Planescape game using not only the Warhammer system but also its tendency toward storytelling and actual role-playing.

By the way in our last game our Priest of Sigmar and Dwarf Huntress managed to get those back to back criticals (Sigmar's Comets) and defeat the plaguebearer just as the priest was rendered unconscious and riddled with wounds and disease. He scraped by, but was one critical away from dying. We also threw in some role-playing with a healer ("A witch!") who attempted to secretly help the priest recover. She was found guilty of practicing her foul arts (medicine) upon him and beaten for her trouble. Her fate remains uncertain...

I love this game!

This post has a mind of it's own it seems. . . .

Thanks for all the comments. Amani I like your last post here as well. I am getting closer to the day I get to run the game and the dice rolls are one of the coolest things I am looking forward to. I am listening to a WFRP podcast as well to get me in the mood. Reckless Dice on the iTunes site has both actual play and advice shows , they are a big help as all of your comments have been .

Thanks, Nom

Ulairi said:

If you don't want a game narrative at all, an RPG is the wrong game to be playing. You would be well served by a boardgame like Castle Ravenloft, Wrath of Ashdralon, or Decent, depending on your personal tastes. If you can find them, games like Hero Quest or Warhammer Quest might appeal to you as well.

If you are looking for a combat heavy RPG, as in, one in which narrative/plot still exists, but the narrative/plot tends to be combat action heavy, then you can potentially run such a game with any RPG system. Make no mistake, however, that is still a practice in shared story telling. You are, as a group, telling the story of an action sequence. Some games force you to engage in more or less narration when you do so. A game like Warhammer FRPG is going to force you to perform more narration than a game like D&D 4e, because it has no combat mat, no figures, and forces you to use description in order to gain bonus fortune dice; the game rewards you for description and story telling. If you are looking to engage with more mechanics, and less story telling/description (of combat or otherwise), D&D 4e probably has a better ruleset for that type of game (though you have said you don't like D&D 4e)--note, I am not saying D&D 4e can not be used with a healthy dose of storytelling, I am simply saying that the game happens to be well suited to running dungeon hack style games (I happen to love both 4e and Warhammer FRPG 3e).

I think, in the end, me and you are working under different definitions as to what story telling entails. I get the feeling you think storytelling only happens outside of combat. That is not the perspective I am coming from. Combat, too, is a form of story telling. Anything that entails creative description of events told by a group of people becomes a shared narrative.

Hey Nom,

Where in Merryland?

Savage Mill by any chance?

Near Savage Mill. . . . I actually play at Games and Stuff over in Glen Burnie.

Do you have a regular game in Laurel? I am looking for a regular game.