Over in the DH forum, somebody mentioned in a thread that they halved the costs of all advancements in DW, as they felt they were too high compared to advancements in DH.

Has anybody else thought the costs in DW are too hight?

For the most part I've not thought much about it, with the exception for the amount of advancements costing 1000 or more. Especially the high cost of Sound Constitution past rank 1.

It sounds like an interesting idea. I am of the opinion you dont really feel like a veteran marine until about rank 3, so it might be a good way to get that feel without starting off at rank 3.

The only thing that really jumps out at me for xp cost is the deathwatch champion specialty and its advances. They are sooo expensive. 4k xp just to get it, if you wanted to pick up swift attack, it's 1500xp!! at rank 4. I think most gms would let you elite advance that for much cheaper by rank 4.

In a way I kind of understand, the champion specialty has a ton of good combat talents and its special ability xenos bane is powerful.

nolsutt said:

Keep in mind that the SP cost for the Advanced Specialties in DW are due to the fact that they do not replace or remove any advances from your normal path

XP costs for the games are scaled to the level of play. So yes, a talent that costs 200xp in DH may well cost 1,000 or more in DW

ItsUncertainWho said:

So should the xp awards be increased then to reflect this scaled level of play?

I like the idea of the players being able to reach the higher ranks of xp without it taking years of play.

Deathwatch advance costs are balanced within Deathwatch, but not in comparison to Dark Heresy or Rogue Trader. So far, I am of the opinion that none of the three WH40K RPGs are fully compatible with one another, the xp costs being one of the key problems. I hope (probably in vain) that Black Crusade will have a smooth progression from DH-equivalent levels of play through DW-equivalent levels of play, because it should not cost a Chaos Space Marine 400-800xp to learn a Skill or Talent that a Renegade Guardsman can learn for 100-200xp.

HappyDaze said:

And that's ok for a DW Marine and a Guardsman from DH ?

Don Raccoon said:

Core book suggests 500 xp or so per 4-5 hours of play (or you can do it based on objectives). DH, IIRC, was closer to 200xp for the same amount of time.

Personally, I tend to try and target the rough length of time I expect the campaign to last, or how often in real time I want the group to go up in level, then I base the xp per session on that timeline. Want a powerful but short campaign, best to give out loads of XP each session. Want a slower to evolve campaign, stick with the base guidelines, and in some cases reduce them.

Happy is right to a certain extent, in that the skills are a little out of whack between all three core books (and Ascension); but how dangerous or "imbalanced" that is depends on the style of game you're running.

In my group our dm gives 500-800 per 4 hour-ish session. This allows us to buy an upgrade almost every night or save for something bigger. It feels like my char has grown a little after each session. We have been playing once a week since release and are about 1k away from rank 5. I have been happy with the progress. In the DH game I play in we earn about 200 per 6 hour session. Both are just as satisfying for cost of abilities to earned xp. Your Marines are epic characters, they fight bigger fights and get more xp so stuff costs more. I've actually been able to buy more abilites in the DW than in DH. Sorry if that's a little jumbled, I'm half alseep.

The costs are higher because you get more XP. 500 a session is recommended, compared to 100-200 in DH.

Reducing the costs would be more than a little ridiculous, really.

As regards Champion: It's supposed to be very expensive. Champion allows non-melee classes access to combat skills that they cannot otherwise obtain, and allows close-combat monkeys to buy them earlier. That is why they are expensive. Remember: This isn't D&D. The alternative careers are just that: An alternative. They are not supposed to be no-brainers that everyone takes.

Lucius Valerius said:

No, it's OK if only one or the other is played at the table at once. I said that the games do not work well alongside each other. In my mind, they are entirely separate games that just happen to share a base set of mechanics. I wish it were different and that all three were fully compatible (and if BC gets it right, then I may the other three games entirely for it), but that's just not the case.

In DW, the Guardsman is an extra. He might have a name, but often that's beyond him. His only purpose is generally to be a part of a Horde and to serve as a set piece for the GM to stage the scene.

In most of DH, the Space Marine is a high-end NPC that serves much the purpose of a demi-god or dragon in classical fantasy RPGs.

Finally, in Ascension DH... I don't reaqlly give a **** because I think the Ascension mechanics are terrible.