Was working out the modifiers for multiple attacks with the Aurum Genestealers from the Emperor Protects, which have Multiple Arms, Swift Attack, and Lightning Attack.

How do you work out the modifiers for each attack when a Genestealer uses the Multiple Attack Action? It's vague as written because they lack the Two Weapon Fighter talent and thus don't fit the usual mold for figuring this out. They also lack Ambidexterity, but that doesn't make a terrible amount of sense for something with four arms.

Garawjukh said:

I view the lack of TWW (Melee) and Ambidexterity as a nice way of letting the victim of the Genestealer possibly survive.

They can take lightning attack, getting their 3 attacks as normal and , if you choose to be mean, you can allow them to get an extra 3 attacks due to the multiple arms, but with the penalties from not having TWW and Ambi.

By only letting the Genestealer have the lightning attack, instead of 6 attacks, you greatly extend the life of your players.

If you are a mean spirited and evil GM you could have a strain that has TWW and Ambi and just wipe your party.

ItsUncertainWho said:

I'm not sure how you'd get 6 attacks out of that, really. Multiple Arms gives the GS 2 attacks as a base. And it says having the Swift Attack or Lightning Attack talents give you +1 attacks, but isn't specific about whether that means +1 attack maximum for either talent or +1 attack per talent .

So what exactly are the modifiers then, for lack of ambidexterity? 3-4 attacks as a full-round action at -20 apiece?

Swift attack gives you 2 attacks, lightning 3 attacks.

Genestealers have 4 arms, so 3 off hands.

Lightning attack + 3 off hand attacks = 6 attacks.

No books at hand and can't remember the penalties.

"This creature has more than one pair of arms. It increases its Toughness Characteristic by +10 and gains a +10 bonus to Strength Tests involving movement such as Climb and Swim. Finally, the creature may use the Multiple Attack action to gain two attacks on its turn. If the creature also has the Swift or Lightning Attack talent, this trait increases the number of attacks they make with a multiple attack action by +1."

Reading literally, this talent gives at most +1 attack regardless of the actual number of arms.

I think it's 4 attacks, as 4 is the maximum a player can make (lightning attack + second weapon, with all the talents etc). But according to the rules, GS would have -20 to hit. Add the talents needed and they're even more dangerous.

I would go with 4: 2 base for Multiple Arms, +1 for Swift Attack, +1 for Lightning Attack. None have any off-hand penalties.

I agree with HappyDaze, they aren't using two weapons or two weapon wielder, they are using lightning attack to get 3 attacks and multiple arms gives them +1 attack for 4 as a full action, and no penalties that wouldnt apply to conventional lightning attack

Yeah, I read it as them having 4 attacks (plus a dodge) too. They don't have any penalties for attacking that many times. Each attack doing like 1d10+14 damage +Pen 7, tearing, and razor sharp. As long as you keep your helmet on, and have a little luck, you can easily survive one round of solo melee.

On a slightly related note, should Genestealers not have an ability to make multiple attacks on the charge? In my experience they usually get to charge.

An unsatisfying reply: no, there should be overall different rules for charging and making attacks instead. I'm considering the use of Furious Assault or Swift Attacks for PCs and NPCs alike on the charge.

Alex

If you give the Genestealers Preternatural Speed they would realy kick AA behind...

Face Eater said:

I don't think they do. Charge is a specific action that allows you to move a moderate distance to close and gives you bonus to WS. Genestealer rushes in and gives a single good hit and then on its next turn it delivers the pain with 4 frenzied attacks.

White Trick said:

And when it uses a Charge action is the only opening it's opponent may have to it before it can pull a Multiple Attack action on its next Round. All-Out Attack may even seem worthwhile, especially if used with Killing Strike and a FP.

HappyDaze said:

That's basically what saved my party when they faced genstealers (I say saved, it wasn't particulary easy) but that was only DH (not even Assencsion). But a part of me still thinks, that they should have Preternatural Speed by this point, there's almost nothing as fast as GS.

As a consession maybe they could use their additional arms attack for the extra danger, without it being quite so character killie.

Face Eater said:

Sure but a Rank 1 DW Assault Marine is also quite killy. I don't see why a Genestealer should 4 attacks on the charge and he only 1. That was my point above when I said: the whole charge system is broken.

Aöex

ak-73 said:

Yeah it is, properly discourages people with multiple attacks from charging. Preternatural Speed goes someway to sorting it but it's available to so few things.

If this was TT or the fluff there would be a general consensus of 'yeah that Stealers for ya.' but obviously that's not appropriate. But I did think at rank 1 they could get PS and Swift attack (if they choose it as their trait). Which is 3 attacks when Dual weilding.