Hey everyone!

So the time is almost nigh for me to start our group's first adventure. I have prepared all my cue cards, the story line, and important info the PC's might ask for. I've also included a couple player aids such as a small map of grunewald lodge, and a little diagram of seating at the dinner (if it even gets there).

Anyway, my wife and I have already played through this adventure and have handled encounters with the abstract distance/movement system described in the book. My other players are brand new to the system but are used to the 1" D&D grid system.

Does anyone use any other systems of measurement? I was thinking of picking up a reversible (hex/square) vinyl grid and using simple drawings to represent distances and obstacles which can also be used for other systems that we play. Otherwise I'll try to introduce the abstract system to them and see how that goes.

U could try to make a big grid-sheet, so u could place location cards on it, and separate each other whit enough square to represent the abstract distances, so that player will be able to count how many manouvres will be necessary to arrive at a location....

In my opinion its still a roleplaying game.

if you, GM, says that target is far far away, its far far away and you cant shoot to it, or its at maximum range.

please do not use hex boards and rulers for the WFRP.

every rule is just an addon to the general play. roleplay

Sometimes, I will use index cards and/or location cards to indicates "areas". Two standups on the same card are in Close range with each other, and most cards are medium range from adjacent cards and long from cards that aren't adjacent.

There is a lot of poo-pooing of using a grid and miniatures among players of this game. I believe this is because the RAW discourage the practice. However, our group uses...gasp...a grid and miniatures. Works awesome, of course. Using standard 25mm miniatures on a 1" grid, each character that makes a move maneuver during his turn gets to move his Agility x2 in squares. With the running skill specialization, we use Agility x3.

Engaged: Adjacent squares

Close Range: 2-6 squares

Medium Range: 7-12 squares

Long Range: 13-24 squares

Extreme Range: 25-48 squares

If you've done any roleplaying in the past, you likely have all the grids and minis you need. Don't be discouraged from using them for WFRP 3rd.

Mage Knight Kevin said:

Sounds interesting. I like squares and minis too and have been annoyed by the current abstract system. It works if your players like it. But if they're like mine and keep on bugging you with difficult and "let's see what you think about THIS"-type of situations maps and minis cn sound a lot better.

However I would like to know how the Agi x2 works in game terms? Beginning characters can already run a "long range" move without getting any fatigue. And what about animals? I don't have the books with me but I think that faster animals (4 legged) still have similar Agi than slower (2 legged).

Doc,

Agil x2 works fine for our group...honestly, in most encounters we start encounters at long range. The characters or henchmen acting first have to decide if they're going to close all the way and thus take fatigue/damage to get the charge off, or sandbag it and wait for the opposition to make the move. This decision is made interesting since we have an Elf hunter in the group who gets off incredible initiative rolls and starts shooting before the charges go. This is certainly an incentive to close range quickly and take the penalty.

For obviously faster animals, use common sense. If they can naturally run, allow them Agil x3 or Agil x4 moves. GM's discretion...as long as the decision is made and is consistently applied through all game sessions.

Kevin.

We use 'Zones' much like the FATE engine if you're familiar (with say Dresden, or Spirit of the Century).

So in essence you can draw out the rooms of a building, or make bigger rooms into 2 zones. In general it's a maneuver to move from 1 to the next, and you just count total moves to determine 'range'. Any minis in the same zone are in close range (similar to/same as dvang). We use common sense for line of sight (well you can't fire at him even though he's at long range, since there's the giant wall of the keep between you and him), and that's about it. Works great, doesn't require abstract distancing, don't need grids and movement counts, and questions about hard corners, blast patterns of spells, engagements within hex/squares etc.

I've debated doing it very similar to what Mage knight kevin suggested. I was simply going to say a maneuver moves you 4 squares. The ranges would be a number of squares equal to the maneuvers normally needed X4. I have two groups I play with, one tends to play board games and I've been testing the WH system on them and pretty much running it as written. My other group has played numerous rpg's, and they don't like board games for the most part. I think I'll use the more concrete movement system with them. The test group has already had several issues with the abstract system...it just doesn't work well when distances to multiple targets vary and one of them moves....

Asmuth said:

This is my issue with abstract movement - and I still struggle to get my head round it.

For example, two people are at extreme range from each other - A and B. If they both want to close the gap to each other, how do I handle this, how many maneouvers does it take?

I'll try to draw it. (A) Extreme > Long > Medium > Close (B). A goes first on initiatve - does he spend 3 maneouvers to close to long? Or can he go from close to medium in one step? The B goes. What range is he at now? How many does he spend? Totally confusing.

From extreme to engaged takes 7 maneuvers. 3 from extreme to long , 2 from long to medium , 1 from medium to close , and finally 1 from close to engaged .

Few fights will start at extreme, most will start from medium to close, with some starting at long.

Extreme is "Is that an orc in the distance?", Long is "Yeah, and he's flanked by 6 goblins with spears", medium is "FIRE!!!", close is well... very close

Because handling the maneuvers between Extreme - long, and long - medium, can be tedious, I just burn fatigue for the npc's to cover whole distances, and not just move from extreme, to "2/3 extreme".

I use round cardboard tokens (punchouts from another game flipped over to white side) with Close, Long etc. written on them. We throw them down between groups as in "coach being attacked" [long] heroes.

Then if a hero moves on maneuvre and shoots bow (still long range) they are now "close" to the origin point (but still "long" from encounter). Another spends a fatigue to move and move, gets to Medium from Encounter, Close to the one who moved, Medium to origin. Etc. Sounds more complicated than it is in practice.

Rob

Spivo said:

Yes, but you are assuming someone at extreme range moving towards something at close range that is static. When that thing at close range is an enemy who is also running towards them, thats when my head explodes...

It's always someone's turn.

If it's your turn and you're at extreme range, 3 maneuvers to get to long. When it's the next person's turn, and they're now at long range to you, it's 2 maneuvers for them to get to medium.

GravitysAngel said:

That was what my first thought was. Then I thought 'what if I don't want to spend 3 maneuvers, instead I want to move from close to medium for 1 - after all, if I am at extreme range from someone, they are at extreme rangefrom me, which means it has all the same distance steps in it'.

I dunno, maybe I'm over thinking it

I tell new players a couple SIMPLE things about movement: There's no grid. You're either in our out of combat. You're already ASSUMED to be attempting to flank, gain higher ground, etc so your turn is not consumed by taking 5' steps and slides (instead it's consumed by other things .