Well, we've already turned the Lurker into a herald, now it's time for us to do the same for the Guardians :'D any takers? (I would do it by printing out a separate herald that says only to be used with _____ and does not count as a herald, just in case people want to add on another herlad) Julia and Amikezor already gave me an idea for something to start with for Hypnos. Mythos cards do not produce clues, and the clues Hypnos adds disappear within a turn. So, what else can turn those dreams into nightmares? Having an Endless monster appear in each segment of the otherworlds with the +1 bonus? And?

Alright !

It is too late now but I'll digest this overnight. excellent idea.

My mod for Hypnos: While Hypnos is in play, there is a -10 penalty to all skill checks.

My mods for Bast and Nodens: similar

For Hypnos: after having an encounter in the Dreamlands / Another Time / Another Dimension, you must pass a Will (-1) check or be delayed (some dreams are just too marvellous to willingly awaken). Otherwise, use a Day / Night mechanic and make all monsters at nighttime becoming nightmarish something.

Anyway, it's a great idea. I have a couple of ideas about Nodens :-)

For Bast... ugh... it's one of the most useless things ever created, I think we should boost the Guardian a little before finding a proper counterpart

Here is an attempt. The thing I like about it is that Bast is actually more useful with this herald around but Bast is not required.

Veet said:

Do you mean to say that the black bordered monster moves like a stalker? Or can it even move into stable locations? That paragraph needs to be tweaked a bit. I love this picture and the card, but can you put in one more nasty effect (perhaps something awful that happens to investigators without Foolishness or Young Zoog? also, the investigator with the Young Zoog shouldn't be able to get a Bast Token). it still mostly feels like a Guardian supplement, interesting, beautiful, slightly sinister looking, but not dangerous. Spice this up a bit so that I can *finally* play with Bast :")

Would it be sufficiently nasty to require investigators in unstable locations to make a luck check or be delayed during the movement phase? The idea being that if you don't have a guide you run afoul of zoog or cat shenanigans.

For Hypnos, just play with Yibb-Tstll.

Very nice Veet ! As Avi pointed out, the picture is great and the general design looks great.

Two minor points :

1/ I am not sure about the usefulness of the Young Zoog thing. If I were an investigator, I would simply never take it. It is very unlikely to get it through encounters and there so many others that are cool at Ma's. What about at the beginning of the game, the first player (or any random investigator) takes the young zoog and is cursed.

2/ Even though they are meant to be on the guardian side, I would put in play the special cards of Bast (Nine Lives and Beloved of Bast), just because those cards are so unusefull as they are. What about each time you get a bast token roll a dice, on a 6 gain the cards. Then, once you have the special cards, if you ever you do not have a bast token at the upkeep, loose your turn (or something else nasty). They would therefore have both benefit and drawback.

I really like the Herald, but I'm with Avi and Amikezor, it'd be perfect if you could manage to introduce even the two Beloved of Bast and Nine Lives card. Besides,as nasty thing, instead of delaying investigators (can be a torture being constantly delayed), what about something like "investigators not having a Bast token have their focus reduced to zero"?

@Julia That would cause problems because a bast token requires expenditures of all focus. Perhaps it should be check dependent, or all focuses should be reduced to one.

Ohhh, you mean pass the check in the unstable location or lose all focus for the next turn? How about that *and* a delay :')

That gives me an idea... Some effect forcing you to move to the nearest other stable location and have an encounter there during the same or next turn... Follow the cat. It goes where it pleases though :')

avec said:

Actually, in all seriousness a -2 penalty to all skill checks while Hypnos is in play would be interesting... Force you to use some of those extra clues. Perhaps just a -1 depending on the other herald effects.

amikezor said:

Definitely :'D

@ Avi: you posted this even on the main forum. I answered there

Julia said:

You are right. Loosing a turn is boring. As for loosing your focus, well you do loose all your focus with the bast token anyway. What about loosing 1 stamina or 1 sanity whatever is the lowest (or loose both, even nastier :-). Since you cannot be devoured, maybe loosing both seem a good option.

amikezor said:

I'd say lose both :')

I want to see some other nasty effects though :'D

Perhaps the monster stalking should effect investigators *with* a cat token. Currently there's not much disincentive for having one. Having and not having should be a double edged sword.

One of the players should definitely be forced to take the Young Zoog.

I'd either cut the stuff about Foolishness or add in something else, so far, the game effects are negligible, but the card text is not.

-

To be fair, I think the thing is wonderfully thematic, but it doesn't really add to game challenge, so I wouldn't print it as it is.

The monster movement was meant to specifically be an opposite to having a cat token, they already prevent monsters from moving into your space.

What if, keeping the bit about not having a bast token giving -1 to sneak and luck, add a bit about having one giving -1 to fight and lore. Also what if after removing the bit about foolishness I add a bit where investigators with bast tokens who use a locations special text (healing shopping etc) are relocated to an unstable location to have an encounter?

I think that the movement thing is nice. "All monsters are stalker" is short enough (since if you have the bast token, monsters cannot attack you but you loose all your focus, ugh :-).

As for -1 to most skills check without the token is too harsh in my opinion.

I'all wait for your next update then.

Veet said:

Yeah, that makes sense, since you'll need fight and lore less if you don't have monsters moving on you (in theory, in practice, no). Relocation sounds good. The question is how will you determine the location? Nearest spot? Or mythos draw? Personally, I like how the skills are set up... It'll make gate sealing either more costly, or more difficult.

I think the whole concept of cats messing up your stats is really funny (but also appropriate, it catches a bit of Lovecraft's tone regarding cats, silly serious).

@Amikezor, well, the whole point of reducing stats without the token is to incentivize taking the token. Reducing sneak makes stalker monsters more threatening, and reducing luck, well, makes all encounters more threatening. On the other hand, having a cat causes brain damage ;'D So that might occasionally force investigators to discard their token (drown that cat!) and pay an extra two bucks to get a replacement Bast Placation Token.

I hope the cursed Zoog is included in the final version, I thought that was really cool and interesting (it'd be hilarious if Sister Mary got cursed because of it). And if it were Rex, we'd finally have a reason why. Blast, it's Bast!

OK did a little update...

That's *really* cool :'D I really like it. Now I finally have the desire to play a game with Bast :'D

This is great. Still no use of Beloved of Bast and Nine Lives ?

I did try to boost that in a very subtle way. I specifically chose drawing a mythos card as the method of relocation to make the game go through more mythos cards and increase the chance of the one that triggers those cards appearing.

Veet said:

How about giving The Beloved of Bast to an investigator with Foolishness? But also have it come with some sort of downside? Or give an investigator with foolishness some way to gain Beloved of Bast (perhaps trading another ten worth of trophies for it while in The Dreamlands or Unknown Kadath?)

avec said:

Played with this last night. Hypnos. Lemme just say: it's very difficult. The only strategy I could come up with, once I realized I couldn't pass the gate closing checks without spending lots of clues (with McGlen) was to go to the Newspaper and look for jobs, then head over to the Curiosity Shop to shop for elder signs and sit and shop, or have encounters to let money build once it ran out. I lucked out and got an elder sign right as the doom track was half filled, but the streets were full of low powered yet-unbeatable monsters. I ran out, got through an otherworld (no critical checks required) got back and sealed my first gate. Then I ran into an Elder Thing. 6 Fight + 6 Tommy Gun = 12 -10 = 2 for combat check, and failed my first few, and he ended up eating my tommy gun. He couldn't hurt me, but I couldn't hurt him. Also, I couldn't evade. I wasn't sure what to do, so I just ended my turn. Luckily, a mythos card killed the elder thing for me. (Question: What do you do in that situation?)

Shortly thereafter, on my way back to newspaper (I lost my retainer) the doom track filled. Final combat was a brief affair.

My constructive criticism: The bonus to Hypnos seems rather more than offset by the penalty. Consider adding another benefit, or perhaps decreasing the penalty mod. I'll try again at -9, but I don't think it'll be a significant change.