I just got my copy of rites of battle today, and I've been reading through the dreadnought section. I agree it isnt quite something for players, but now npcs, thats a diffrent story.

I plan on making a dreadnought npc for a game I'm gonna run, more or less to check out the advacne and see how it works in the game, but I have some questions reguarding the rules.

One - It says your Strength and agility become 70 and 20 respectivly (in most cases). My question here is what if the said character took advances to his strength, agility, or toughness before coming a dreadnought? Are thouse exp points just lost?

Two - It says in addition to the dreadnought advances table, a dreadnought can take advances given on the "applicable" list as long as there in the general marine advances. I see a few talens on the "applicable" list that are not on the general marine advances. So what am I supose to do? (Namely swift attack)

Third - What about chapter bonuses to strength, agility, or toughness? What happens to them? (Do they get applied to the "marine" in the Sarcophagus?)

Personally my answer for number one would be if you took any advances on strength, agility of toughness, that the xp you spent on them just gets deducted from the 5000 xp needed to become a dreadnought, does that sound fair/good?

I too am facinated by the idea of a Dread NPC, and can't wait to spring him onto my group. But my thoughts on it all, especially after playing several robots in SWRPG

1. Yes, those EXP are lost. You're dead and your body is now a giant robot. You only move and are as strong as the robot

2. I believe the idea is if you had these skills and talents before you shed your mortal coil, you can keep them. If you didn't, well. Bummer.

3. Anything but the non Dreadnaught bonuses are gone. So good to be a dark angel Dread. Bad to be a Storm Warden.

However, Id' say that under the skill of the artificer, anything could be possible. They could have made arms stronger or legs faster, but I believe the general idea is that the machine dictates what your body is like, rather than the other way around. A dread lifting weights doesn't get any stronger.

But I wouldn't say deduct from past things. If you're a PC and you're lucky enough to be nominated to be a Dreadnought, I'd say that you should have to pay off becoming a dread like you might pay off a car. Maybe work off some of that EXP as penance for now being a hulking war machine for the emperor.

More or less I wasent asking these questions for use as a player, I was asking for building an npc.

I apreciate your input, thanks for the perspective.

Oh, well as an NPC, do whatever you feel like. I mean, you could taunt your players with a Librarian dread.

But if I'd build a dread as an NPC, I'd build them the same way as I would allow a PC to do it. Just to be fair. I'd even allow the Librarian Dread if i felt it was right.

Deducting the bought advancements from the package cost seems like a good idea. Otherwise, you'd essentially make Dreadnoughts wortwhile only for those who plan on having themselves almost-killed and thus don't buy the advances in the first place while handing the people who take it as a spur-of-the-moment decision a massive Screw-You! sign.

Thanks again for the input guys, I think I've worked out what I'm gonna do.

Oh and on the topic of libby dreads, they do exist. Bigest example I know of is the blood angels ones, they can be libbys (both in fluff and on the tabletop game)

Cifer said:

Athletes who get hit by a bus and loose the use of their legs probably don't plan for it and skimp on the agility stat-ups because they'll be useless. I'd probably 'add' at least 3000xp to the 'cost' of the NPC Dread that they don't get to spend because they spent it on skills and stat-ups that are moot. They might be an NPC, but they can't see the future.

Keep in mind that it is considered a great honor to be entombed in a dreadnought.

Most of the fluff seems to point to most Astartes not wanting that "Honor."

DrewVolker said:

It may be a mild spoiler but if your marine gets killed after completing the The Emperor Protects campaign, he'll have a high enough standing to qualify for dreadnought imho.

Alex

DrewVolker said:

Yep, do exist on TT, but does say in Rites no libby dreads. But as a GM, do as you wish.

As usual, I agree with Sir. A person in a dread, no matter how much they spent, are entombed and din't know they would be. A person hit by a bus also don'es tg et to have a faster wheelchair or access to more skills because they put it into there. It's just fate's way of laughing at you.

Frostfire said:

There are numerous other errors in RoB. The fact that pretty much every Librarian Skill and Talent are listed as usable by Dreadnoughts weighs more in my eyes than the one line restriction against LibbyDs.

@Siranui

Athletes who get hit by a bus and loose the use of their legs probably don't plan for it and skimp on the agility stat-ups because they'll be useless. I'd probably 'add' at least 3000xp to the 'cost' of the NPC Dread that they don't get to spend because they spent it on skills and stat-ups that are moot. They might be an NPC, but they can't see the future.

Athletes don't play in a game that is supposed to be somewhat balanced and fun for the players. Right now, the fact is that a player who would like to play a Dreadnought and spends his advances appropriately has a much stronger character than one who doesn't.

Now since I don't have RoB yet, I don't know the mechanics for being interred in a Dreadnought. Is it only an option when the PC has run out of Fate Points and would die otherwise?

HappyDaze said:

I've seen you say that multiple times, but I'd take it more that these are skilsl that you can have as an elite advance and are still applicable. I think that a Dreadnaught, as it's presented in RoB makes being a Libby Difficult from a balance perspective. The Blood Angels Librarian Dread doesn't have any long range weapons (I do'nt own the book, just asked someone about it that plays Blood Angels). So that means no assault cannos, no missiles, no much of anything except the close combat weapon. After this comes factors like how do you get a librarian hood? How much damage does an oversized force staff do? And how do Perils of the Warp occur inside armor?

I don't think the system is made for it at current. I predict future suppliments, but I don't see it this time around

Frostfire said:

More likely is that while Librarian Dreadnoughts exist within at least some Chapters, Librarian Deathwatch Dreadnoughts do not. Chapters that consider making Librarian Dreadnoughts might be a little restrictive about letting their Librarians go away for good to the Deathwatch.

I'll take that too as a good one. However, as a GM, I'll do whatever I want and put a dread in there as I Libby Dread in there as I wish. I just won't try it with a player because I don't know if they can control it like me.

Frostfire said:

Careful there. You're dangerously close to suggesting that you're more capable of exerting self-control than your player(s) and that's the kind of thing that an egomaniac might put out there.

Frostfire said:

BYE