Hi there,

I have a Devastator. I have Bolter Drill and Storm of Iron. I have Metal Storm Rounds. I do not have Unrelenting Devastation.

Say, for sake of argument, I hit with all 11 shots (10 + 1 for Bolter Drill). The Horde is weak enough that rolling damage is pointless (ie. my min damage/pen is greater than their max damage sink), and thus I score 11 Mag damage, doubled to 22 because each Metal-Storm Round is Blast (2). I get +1 due to them being Explosive, so I'm on 23 Mag Damage. Now this is doubled to 46 due to Storm of Iron.

---OR---

The same 11 shots hit, and the Horde is still so weak that I needn't roll damage.Thus I score 11 Mag damage, doubled to 22 because each Metal-Storm Round is Blast (2). I then double that to 44 due to Storm of Iron. I then get +1 due to the ammo being being Explosive. Total is 45 Mag damage.


Which is correct? Or is neither correct and it's something different?

Thanks!

BYE

As per the un-natural statistics rules, multipliers are ADDED and then multiplied. Then the '+1s' are put on top.

So the answer would then be my second example. Each hit scores 2 damage against the Mag value (due to Blast (2) on the Metal Storm rounds), and with 11 hits that totals 22 damage, doubled to 44 with Storm of Iron, then +1 for the 'Explosive' damage type. Total 45 Mag Damage.

--OR--

11 Mag damage from 11 hits, doubled to 22 due to Storm of Iron, +1 for each hit due to Blast (2), totalling 33 damage, then +1 for Explosive. Total 34 Mag Damage.

Yes? No? Maybe? Pineapple?

BYE

Okay, let me give it a try:

11 hits Explosive:

X weapons count as having scored an extra HIT

Metal Storm Rounds are Blast (2) so each hits 2 times

Storm of Iron doubles Horde Damage

I would rule you would do:
(11+1) x3 = 36 horde damage

If you would have Unrelenting Devastation you would do 36+1d5 horde damage

1) Start with 11 hits

2) Blast 2 doubles hits = 22 hits

3) Storm of Iron doubles damage = 44 damage

Total = 44 damage

Now, this part is all clear, the question becomes how to apply the extra hit for Explosive. If it's just applied at Stage 2, then the end result is 46. If it's applied after Stage 3 ("at the end") then it's 45. I like to finsh dealing with all hits first and then start resolving damage, so I'd say the final answer is 46.

I'm not sure where others are seeing the part about adding multipliers (like in 3.0/3.5 D&D). If they can point it out, I may revise my answer.

The adding after multiplying thing comes from rules like Unnatural Strength/Toughness. Take a Marine for example, with Strength 40. Unnatural Toughness doubles that to 8 before the +20 for the Power Armour is added, giving them a final Strength Bonus of 10 RATHER THAN adding the +20 to the 40, making it 60, and then doubling it to Strength Bonus 12.

BYE

HappyDaze said:

The wording on adding up multipliers is in the unnatural stats section. Basically, if a character has two different sources of an unnatural stat (x2), it does not turn into a x4 multiplier, but rather a x3 multiplier.

The error I see people constantly making is the view that blast(x) is a multiplier effect. Heck, even unrelenting devastation isn't actually a multiplier effect (it just adds +1 for each hit scored, or +1d5 with blast weapons. Of course, this got ruined with the errata, which causes more problems than it "fixes"). Blast replaces the damage dealt by that attack.

So rather than 11 hits, multiplied by two, it is 11 hits, each individually dealing 2 mag damage each. Which then has the multiplier applied.

Personally, I'm not too concerned with how the +1 from blast multiplies out, being less than 5% of the total mag damage, and would rule that it is not multiplied probably.

Unnatural Characteristics does not set a universal rule. Consider that power armour adds +1 to your movement and that this is multiplied out with the various movement rates - including the speed boost for using a jump pack. AFAICT, the rule for Unnatural Characteristics is specific to how to use Unnatural Characteristics.

Okay, my try:

- 11 hits as base.
- Metal Storm counts each of these hits as 2 hits, so 22 hits.
- Then the Explosive hit gets applies for 23 hits.
- These translate into 23 points of base magnitude damage.
- Then Storm of Iron takes effect which doubles the magnitude damage. (Storm of Iron therefore gets to be applied last.)
- Final result: 46 mag damage.

Ain't that easy? No. Anyway, as we can see - the unnatural ability argument does not apply because metal storm and storm of iron (aka metal storm of iron) double two different things - number of hits and magnitude damage.

Alex

This is only my first post, so bear with me... The book states that 'Explosive' damage deals an additional 'hit'. So wouldn't you really be hitting the target 12 times, not 11? So then it would be 12x2 for 24 then 24x2 for 48 mag damage? Right?

LmbrJck said:

The errata clarifies that this hit should be applied after all other hits have been applied, that's why I did the above calculation the way I did.

Alex