I like the Dark Angels. I really do. However, I'm wondering about the feasibility of playing one that has no knowledge of the Fallen and is not clued in. Obviously, this character would not be a Librarian, but when I look at the Dark Angels Chapter Advances, I can't help but think that the vast majority of them (primarily Interrogation and the various Forbidden Lores) are only appropriate for a clued-in member of the Chapter. Also, every **** character arc with the Dark Angels seems to involve running off after the Fallen, and I'm thinking that a young Dark Angel might never have such temptations if he's not clued in to the story (he's not Deathwing or Ravenwing and hasn't taken any such Deed). Am I missing something?
Playing an Unforgiven that doesn't know about The Big Secret
HappyDaze said:
I like the Dark Angels. I really do. However, I'm wondering about the feasibility of playing one that has no knowledge of the Fallen and is not clued in. Obviously, this character would not be a Librarian, but when I look at the Dark Angels Chapter Advances, I can't help but think that the vast majority of them (primarily Interrogation and the various Forbidden Lores) are only appropriate for a clued-in member of the Chapter. Also, every **** character arc with the Dark Angels seems to involve running off after the Fallen, and I'm thinking that a young Dark Angel might never have such temptations if he's not clued in to the story (he's not Deathwing or Ravenwing and hasn't taken any such Deed). Am I missing something?
Even many Inner Circle members don't know the full story. So most DAs should only have suspicions that something important is going on. You want a different plot arc? Have the DAs on Erioch chase after a false rumour what is actually behind all the secrecy of the upper ranks.
Alex
Most DAs know nothing about any of it. In-the-know is Ravenwing, Deathwing, and a few others. So 75% of the Chapter have no idea about any of the Fallen 'story arc', and more than most Free Masons don't know that they're really in the dark service of [illuminanti censorsed].
There's still enough on the Chapter Advance scheme to be of interest, though. So nothing really needs changing. In fact, I approve of your efforts to escape the often-really-rather-lame DA Chapter special secret snowflake thing.
Siranui said:
Most DAs know nothing about any of it. In-the-know is Ravenwing, Deathwing, and a few others. So 75% of the Chapter have no idea about any of the Fallen 'story arc', and more than most Free Masons don't know that they're really in the dark service of [illuminanti censorsed].
There's still enough on the Chapter Advance scheme to be of interest, though. So nothing really needs changing. In fact, I approve of your efforts to escape the often-really-rather-lame DA Chapter special secret snowflake thing.
That's pretty much what I was thinking too. It just seems like everything I read about Dark Angels PCs assumes that they are 'in the know' despite the low chances of a new PC really being there. Even more important, I don't see the secret getting learned while with the Deathwatch. After the DA gets back to his Chapter and has proven himself by completing his Deathwatch tour, sure, but not while he's still deployed amongst others that may become privy to the secret.
There's a very solid argument for NOT letting those in the know serve in the Deathwatch.
Conversely, DW members are often chapter veterans, so a DA member of the DW may be privy to some secrets about the fallen.
Siranui said:
There's a very solid argument for NOT letting those in the know serve in the Deathwatch.
This ^^
I think this is perfect; a battle-brother skilled in many ways but not yet in the inner circles. What better way to prove your ability to keep secrets than go to the DW, come back, and then tell no one in your chapter anything about it.
AFAIK the DA get more clued in the higher up they go, so if say a Sgt gets put up on DW duty he'll know theres something going on, wheres a captain will know more details etc.
Layers of secrecy.
Wasn't there something in the DW core about the DA and successors sending slightly clued up people to the DW in order to have feelers out, or something...
ObsidianThunder said:
Wasn't there something in the DW core about the DA and successors sending slightly clued up people to the DW in order to have feelers out, or something...
They also tend to send those Marines too promising to leave in their current roles but not suitable to induct into the Inner Circle (they may react poorly to the idea of the Fallen).
Charmander said:
Siranui said:
There's a very solid argument for NOT letting those in the know serve in the Deathwatch.
This ^^
I think this is perfect; a battle-brother skilled in many ways but not yet in the inner circles. What better way to prove your ability to keep secrets than go to the DW, come back, and then tell no one in your chapter anything about it.
Yeah but sometimes you have no choice. I know I mentioned it a couple of times before but I felt a DA Librarian who has encoutnered the Fallen before per past history roll... I'm like - okay, if he's rolled up that combination, we'll do it. He's been send to the DW only because there is a Fallen in the Reach and he knows it. I don't find that cliched. I like it. I intend to send him on a wild goose chase all across the Reach. Or rather... he'll have to create missions and lead the kill-team all over the Reach to places where he thinks the Fallen is.
Alex
On a tangent here, but do the Dark Angels really wear their robes into battle? Can this be done while wearing a jump pack (wouldn't that be bad for the intakes and the exhaust could scorch the robe)? How do they keep the robes from getting shredded/burned up in battle? I'd hate to lose a Chapter Trapping after one attack lands or one use of the jump pack, so does taking the Robe Chapter Trapping represent one robe, or is it a supply that allows for replacement robes (of the same type)?
ak-73 said:
Yeah but sometimes you have no choice. I know I mentioned it a couple of times before but I felt a DA Librarian who has encoutnered the Fallen before per past history roll... I'm like - okay, if he's rolled up that combination, we'll do it. He's been send to the DW only because there is a Fallen in the Reach and he knows it. I don't find that cliched. I like it. I intend to send him on a wild goose chase all across the Reach. Or rather... he'll have to create missions and lead the kill-team all over the Reach to places where he thinks the Fallen is.
Point taken, but reading Happy's first post, the character he's thinking of wouldn't be a Librarian and wouldn't have that particular past history.
I do like the idea of alternative agendas myself, and think that it can cause all kinds of interesting drama during a session, but I can totally see the point of 'I like the DA's but just don't want to worry about that one 'thing.'
But that does really bring up I think a key point, and that it this will all depend on your GM. Even if you know the whole secret, your campaign may never have anything to do with the fallen. In which case it doesn't matter if you know it or not.
@HappyDaze Re: Robes: Yes. Personally I'd say if you want the robe's benefits you'd need to be wearing them. Note some of the models GW has show the robes in compromising positions where they should limit the moblity of the marine, but no one worries about it, so I'd just let the guy wear the robe, personaly and not have him have to worry about it catching on fire all the time. Give him some singe marks for character and to let people know his status, but don't eliminate a trapping for that.
You can't say that in the linked image, the guy riding that bike wouldn't have all kinds of trouble :-D
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1080139&rootCatGameStyle =
Charmander said:
ak-73 said:
Yeah but sometimes you have no choice. I know I mentioned it a couple of times before but I felt a DA Librarian who has encoutnered the Fallen before per past history roll... I'm like - okay, if he's rolled up that combination, we'll do it. He's been send to the DW only because there is a Fallen in the Reach and he knows it. I don't find that cliched. I like it. I intend to send him on a wild goose chase all across the Reach. Or rather... he'll have to create missions and lead the kill-team all over the Reach to places where he thinks the Fallen is.
Point taken, but reading Happy's first post, the character he's thinking of wouldn't be a Librarian and wouldn't have that particular past history.
I do like the idea of alternative agendas myself, and think that it can cause all kinds of interesting drama during a session, but I can totally see the point of 'I like the DA's but just don't want to worry about that one 'thing.'
But that does really bring up I think a key point, and that it this will all depend on your GM. Even if you know the whole secret, your campaign may never have anything to do with the fallen. In which case it doesn't matter if you know it or not.
@HappyDaze Re: Robes: Yes. Personally I'd say if you want the robe's benefits you'd need to be wearing them. Note some of the models GW has show the robes in compromising positions where they should limit the moblity of the marine, but no one worries about it, so I'd just let the guy wear the robe, personaly and not have him have to worry about it catching on fire all the time. Give him some singe marks for character and to let people know his status, but don't eliminate a trapping for that.
You can't say that in the linked image, the guy riding that bike wouldn't have all kinds of trouble :-D
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1080139&rootCatGameStyle =
Correct. The character I'm working on has The Lion and the Wolf (and so took Ritual Duel Fighter and paid the 300 xp to ensure a win) as his past history.
I have to agree on that model looking a bit... outrageous. But, it is what it is, and now I'm left wondering if any of the Dark Angels wear slippers over their sabatons...
Is all of this stuff in the book, or is it stuff that people will have to know from playing the minis game as well?
WillisRBC said:
Is all of this stuff in the book, or is it stuff that people will have to know from playing the minis game as well?
Brief version in both RPG and mini fluff. I think the longer version is in the novels.
Why would Interrogation and the Forbidden Lores only be appropriate for the inner circle members of the DA? An inner circle member would need experience in those skills before starting on the most important mission for the chapter.
Blargh said:
Why would Interrogation and the Forbidden Lores only be appropriate for the inner circle members of the DA? An inner circle member would need experience in those skills before starting on the most important mission for the chapter.
The Forbidden Lores could be slowly gained before induction into the Deathwing or Inner Circle, but I don't really see Interrogation. The Dark Angels codex specifically points out that even Dark Angels "in the partial know" like the Ravenwing don't interact with the Fallen except to find the shady bastards and call in the Deathwing. I'd imagine that 9/10 of the time, what they find are not even Fallen since their knowledge of them is incomplete.
In my eyes, Interrogation seems appropriate only for DA Librarians and, of course, their Interrogator-Chaplains (which do not join the Deathwatch - see Deathwatch Chaplain in RoB for how the two are different).
For the Dark Angels Chapter Advances, I would have thought that Scrutiny would have been better than Interrogation, especially as it fits the 'suspicious bastards' aspect of the DA.
N0-1_H3r3 said:
They also tend to send those Marines too promising to leave in their current roles but not suitable to induct into the Inner Circle (they may react poorly to the idea of the Fallen).
One of my players is running with this idea. His character was in most ways a true Dark Angel: stubborn, loyal, and in love with robes. His zeal had the chaplains considering him as a candidate for induction.
Unfortunately, his overly inquisitive nature was problematic. Concerned that he might stumble across secrets best left hidden, the chapter nominated to tithe him to the Deathwatch, where his skills could be put to use without causing problems. Ironically, while serving his watch he has become a chaplain anyway, and has subsequently become privy to some of the information they were trying to keep hidden.
make a Fallen black shield, a very good repenting black shield, they have a few missions with him, he is respectful, friendly. That will create the best RP sequence ever.
Where does is loyalty rest, DW, the Inner Circle, the DA, etc.
Je just hasn't come out of the closet yet. Not even his wife knows.
Having a Fallen as a black shield is a little bit too blatantly obvious a plot twist for most GMs to stomach. And there's the issue that a Fallen character should probably have quite a lot of XP...
Well not necessarily, they were thrown through both time and space so they could be fresh from the heresy era and not as trained as a fallen who was thrown in the time stream a little earlier.
Siranui said:
Having a Fallen as a black shield is a little bit too blatantly obvious a plot twist for most GMs to stomach. And there's the issue that a Fallen character should probably have quite a lot of XP...
I'd not do it as a PC, maybe an NPC (someone of import). While I like the idea of the RP between characters with shady backstories, but I don't particularly like the ones that end up with one PC justifiably wasting another PC.
Though on the XP front, if he was a fallen that got sucked into the warp, he may be only a few years older than when the fall happened.
Charmander said:
Siranui said:
There's a very solid argument for NOT letting those in the know serve in the Deathwatch.
This ^^
I think this is perfect; a battle-brother skilled in many ways but not yet in the inner circles. What better way to prove your ability to keep secrets than go to the DW, come back, and then tell no one in your chapter anything about it.
An excellent point. And how better to salve the suspicions of the Inquisition than a battle brother who has no secret to hide, nor even any clue that there IS a secret to hide.
Shrewd thinking. I may suspend your liquidation citizen.
ddunkelmeister said:
N0-1_H3r3 said:
They also tend to send those Marines too promising to leave in their current roles but not suitable to induct into the Inner Circle (they may react poorly to the idea of the Fallen).
One of my players is running with this idea. His character was in most ways a true Dark Angel: stubborn, loyal, and in love with robes. His zeal had the chaplains considering him as a candidate for induction.
Unfortunately, his overly inquisitive nature was problematic. Concerned that he might stumble across secrets best left hidden, the chapter nominated to tithe him to the Deathwatch, where his skills could be put to use without causing problems. Ironically, while serving his watch he has become a chaplain anyway, and has subsequently become privy to some of the information they were trying to keep hidden.
Some secrets WANT to be found (just ask Tzeentch).