So if I am reading the rules correctly, then the only time Marines need to even roll a Fear Check is when they are in Squad Mode to avoid losing Cohesion. Is this correct?
Fear Checks and Marines
Yuri03 said:
So if I am reading the rules correctly, then the only time Marines need to even roll a Fear Check is when they are in Squad Mode to avoid losing Cohesion. Is this correct?
I would give them a test to avoid the WP penalty too.
Alex
They also have to roll fear tests when in solo mode or suffer modifiers to their WP.
MILLANDSON said:
They also have to roll fear tests when in solo mode or suffer modifiers to their WP.
Isn't this automatic? Or maybe I've just not seen the check to avoid it.
BrotharTearer said:
MILLANDSON said:
They also have to roll fear tests when in solo mode or suffer modifiers to their WP.
Isn't this automatic? Or maybe I've just not seen the check to avoid it.
Yep, misremembered it. When I checked my book just now the WP modifier is automatic.
MILLANDSON said:
Yep, misremembered it. When I checked my book just now the WP modifier is automatic.
Kinda seems you'd want to have a check to avoid that WP penalty. Especially for my Black Templar with Abhor the Witch going up in solo mode against some Daemon Prince with psyker powers, that unavoidable WP hit will be a hassle. Only good thing with Fearless, hm?
MILLANDSON said:
BrotharTearer said:
MILLANDSON said:
They also have to roll fear tests when in solo mode or suffer modifiers to their WP.
Isn't this automatic? Or maybe I've just not seen the check to avoid it.
Yep, misremembered it. When I checked my book just now the WP modifier is automatic.
Incorrect. You have remembered it correctly and misread it (it's not well presented though). To quote from page 277:
"When a PC is confronted by such a frightening event or adversary, he must take a Fear Test; this is a Willpower Test, modified by how frightening the thing is. If the PC passes this test, then he may continue to act as normal. If he fails, however, he succumbs to Fear."
Granted it could be a copy&paste job but that's what it says and it's how I handle it. Otherwise Tyranid Warriors with Devourers can lay very suppressive fire against Marines, Nerves Of Steel or no.
Alex
ak-73 said:
Incorrect. You have remembered it correctly and misread it (it's not well presented though). To quote from page 277:
"When a PC is confronted by such a frightening event or adversary, he must take a Fear Test; this is a Willpower Test, modified by how frightening the thing is. If the PC passes this test, then he may continue to act as normal. If he fails, however, he succumbs to Fear."
Granted it could be a copy&paste job but that's what it says and it's how I handle it. Otherwise Tyranid Warriors with Devourers can lay very suppressive fire against Marines, Nerves Of Steel or no.
Alex
Okay, so if I am reading it correctly now, then when a Marine comes up against a fear causing enemy, he makes a WP test with a penalty based on the Fear rating. If he fails that, then, if he is in Solo mode, he has a -10 penalty to his WP for each degree of Fear the creature has. If he is in Squad mode, then the Squad loses Cohesion equal to the Fear rating unless the Squad leader makes a WP check with a penalty based on the Fear rating.
ex 1: Brother A is in Solo mode and comes up against a Fear (2) creature. He makes a WP check at -10. He fails and therefore suffers from a -20 to his WP as long as the creature is there.
ex 2: Brother's A, B, and C are in Squad mode and the group comes up against a Fear (3) creature. Unless Brother A, the squad leader, succeeds at a WP check with a -20 penalty, the Squad will lose 3 points of Cohesion.
Yuri03 said:
Okay, so if I am reading it correctly now, then when a Marine comes up against a fear causing enemy, he makes a WP test with a penalty based on the Fear rating. If he fails that, then, if he is in Solo mode, he has a -10 penalty to his WP for each degree of Fear the creature has. If he is in Squad mode, then the Squad loses Cohesion equal to the Fear rating unless the Squad leader makes a WP check with a penalty based on the Fear rating.
ex 1: Brother A is in Solo mode and comes up against a Fear (2) creature. He makes a WP check at -10. He fails and therefore suffers from a -20 to his WP as long as the creature is there.
ex 2: Brother's A, B, and C are in Squad mode and the group comes up against a Fear (3) creature. Unless Brother A, the squad leader, succeeds at a WP check with a -20 penalty, the Squad will lose 3 points of Cohesion.
If you're reading it as AK describes, you're spot on.
Did anyone ever ask FFG about this one? I know we've had this debate before, and the wording in that section is grade A confusing. I could really see the argument from either perspective. One spot says 'PC's but the middle section is held outside of the rest of the fear section and then specifically calls out the WP roll for squad leaders. Would the squad leader get 2 rolls, one to succumb and then one to resist cohesion damage? Would a space marine really be -30 to all WP rolls when a Tyranid Warrior is wandering about?
Oh well; if you want fear to be as big of a deal as possible, make it automatic. If you don't, use AK's reading. If you're curious, submit the question to FFG
Well, FFG seemed to think it was clear, since that bit wasn't covered in the errata, only clarifications to the squad mode fear test.
Yuri03 said:
ak-73 said:
Incorrect. You have remembered it correctly and misread it (it's not well presented though). To quote from page 277:
"When a PC is confronted by such a frightening event or adversary, he must take a Fear Test; this is a Willpower Test, modified by how frightening the thing is. If the PC passes this test, then he may continue to act as normal. If he fails, however, he succumbs to Fear."
Granted it could be a copy&paste job but that's what it says and it's how I handle it. Otherwise Tyranid Warriors with Devourers can lay very suppressive fire against Marines, Nerves Of Steel or no.
Alex
Okay, so if I am reading it correctly now, then when a Marine comes up against a fear causing enemy, he makes a WP test with a penalty based on the Fear rating. If he fails that, then, if he is in Solo mode, he has a -10 penalty to his WP for each degree of Fear the creature has. If he is in Squad mode, then the Squad loses Cohesion equal to the Fear rating unless the Squad leader makes a WP check with a penalty based on the Fear rating.
ex 1: Brother A is in Solo mode and comes up against a Fear (2) creature. He makes a WP check at -10. He fails and therefore suffers from a -20 to his WP as long as the creature is there.
ex 2: Brother's A, B, and C are in Squad mode and the group comes up against a Fear (3) creature. Unless Brother A, the squad leader, succeeds at a WP check with a -20 penalty, the Squad will lose 3 points of Cohesion.
I was under the impression that in your example 2, the squad only looses one point of Cohesion.
I have always thought that it an oversight that marines dont have jaded and not be subject to most fear checks right away. "They Shall Know No Fear" and all yet a tyranid can still cause their weapon to falter? Chaos Marines get it, so we've just been going assuming they have it.
MILLANDSON said:
Well, FFG seemed to think it was clear, since that bit wasn't covered in the errata, only clarifications to the squad mode fear test.
Well I know I'm slow, but still
Siranui said:
I was under the impression that in your example 2, the squad only looses one point of Cohesion.
I think it says you lose a point of cohesion equal to the fear rating of the creature, which in the example is 3, not a single point of cohesion.
Sippin said:
I have always thought that it an oversight that marines dont have jaded and not be subject to most fear checks right away. "They Shall Know No Fear" and all yet a tyranid can still cause their weapon to falter? Chaos Marines get it, so we've just been going assuming they have it.
Jaded wouldn't help against Tyranids, jaded covers things like mundane blood and guts on the battlefield. Fearless however, would make you immune to fear. Fear causing creatures do so because they're effed up in some way.
Charmander said:
Jaded wouldn't help against Tyranids, jaded covers things like mundane blood and guts on the battlefield. Fearless however, would make you immune to fear. Fear causing creatures do so because they're effed up in some way.
Oddly enough, it would if you used the RT version of Jaded, and the DW version seems to do so as well. Tyranids are "xenos abominations" by definition, so Jaded would be sufficient to prevent Fear checks from them. In fact, with Jaded, only Warp-fueled sources of fear (primarily daemons and psychic powers) are any worry at all.
ak-73 said:
MILLANDSON said:
BrotharTearer said:
MILLANDSON said:
They also have to roll fear tests when in solo mode or suffer modifiers to their WP.
Isn't this automatic? Or maybe I've just not seen the check to avoid it.
Yep, misremembered it. When I checked my book just now the WP modifier is automatic.
Incorrect. You have remembered it correctly and misread it (it's not well presented though). To quote from page 277:
"When a PC is confronted by such a frightening event or adversary, he must take a Fear Test; this is a Willpower Test, modified by how frightening the thing is. If the PC passes this test, then he may continue to act as normal. If he fails, however, he succumbs to Fear."
Granted it could be a copy&paste job but that's what it says and it's how I handle it. Otherwise Tyranid Warriors with Devourers can lay very suppressive fire against Marines, Nerves Of Steel or no.
Alex
The only thing is that the wording says 'PC' Not 'Battle-Brother' The only things that affect a 'Battle-Brother' are in the 2 bulleted paragraphs below that. We had a big debate about this at our last gaming session. We think they worded it that way if a character from RT came into a mission or something along those lines...
LmbrJck said:
The only thing is that the wording says 'PC' Not 'Battle-Brother' The only things that affect a 'Battle-Brother' are in the 2 bulleted paragraphs below that. We had a big debate about this at our last gaming session. We think they worded it that way if a character from RT came into a mission or something along those lines...
I hereby nominate you to pester the design team about this one, so some of the rest of us don't wear out our welcome anymore than we already have
