When a Techmarine takes the Machinator Array trait, from what source does the pistol or melee weapon come from? I get the impression (that I can't confirm because I don't have the Rogue Trader or Dark Heresy books) that Machinator Array was taken from one of those games, where possessions and wealth actually accumulate, thus making the newly mechadendrite mounted weapons simple: You still had to buy it or already own it, now it's just welded onto a little servo-arm. (Whatever modifications are necessary to the weapon to make it mechadendrite mounted are made when you're getting the Array installed.)

But in Deathwatch, none of the interpretations I can come up with are satisfactory.

It can't just "come with" Machinator Array, or you can get a free power fist.

If you have to requisition it normally, then you have to return it to the Deathwatch armory after every mission...and can change the weapon at the start of every mission. Which both goes against the "cybernetics are permanent" policy and would indicate that the real upgrade you're getting is a little hand on the end of a mechadendrite that can hold a pistol or melee weapon, which is silly.

The best answer I can come up with is that you requisition the attached weapon as if it were a cybernetic, that is, you buy it on the next mission, but then keep it forever. But that seems kinda cheaty and is not at all indicated by the text. Help?

Jaxal said:

I would probably go with requisitioning a new weapon each mission. The Techmarine gets cybered up and the real upgrade is the bonus to his S and T. In addition to that, his servo-arm gets an additional hardpoint upgrade on which a weapon can get mounted. I might not allow power fists but power sword/axes, infernus pistol... why not?

Plug-n-play.

Alex

From a game design sense, I think that you're right, and I think thats probably the most balanced way to handle it. But I think you can see why that seems a little awkward to me, and why is seems like that text was copied verbatim from another book without updating it for the Deathwatch,

Jaxal said:

Of course with your approach, what would keep a PC from requisitiong a different attachment two missions later? After all replacement shouldn't be too difficult...

Would make sense too... that way the Techmarine only has to pay if he wants to replace.

Alex

Poor explanation of an ability in my opinion. Would like some clarification on what weapons are considered okay to mount. In Dark heresy no tech priest had the aility to mount a melee attachment. Granted it's different here but whatever.

To put things in perspective however, First they spend 1200 xp on being able to attach a machinator array. Secondly they must buy mechadendrite use (weapon) for another 500xp. Remember players have a total of 37,000xp to develop their character. A player going down this route has just used about 5% of their xp allocation on being able to have a powerfist attached to a servo arm. This doesn't give them any extra attacks with it. It is not a servo arm (different talent) so they can't use it to get free attacks as a reaction. It is however a cybernetic and as such subject to rules of cybernetics. So any critical damage taken to the body will result in a 50% chance of the servo arm being rendered useless and a new one having to be requisitioned. Are you going to charge an assault marine extra req points because they can attack with the same melee weapon three times with a talent? What it does state plainly however is the character 'may' mount a weapon. Indicates to me they need to get hold of one. Req once mount and it's there. I would not give them the option to change it. tearing their body apart now are they? Removing parts of the machine spirit? Interesting? Get them to buy a second arm for req points and then pay req points for another weapon if they want to get something different. Once it's there they build on it, don't remove it.

Personally I don't see the problem with it. Sure your player wants to cheese it up. If that's a problem for you say "no I don't want it because I think it's unbalancing combat." As I mentioned above as a GM my NPC's would see this beast in action a handful of times and eventually deal with him. Overrun him, poison him, snipe him from range or just be relentless in an ongoing assault. Ignore most the rest of the kill team because he is the kamikaze target. If the player gets upset at this just nod and say "Well you're seen as an extreme threat and they want to neutralize you." He wants to build hard, treat him hard. Send a hero out to deal with him and him alone while the rest of the team is off doing something else or trap him and separate him.

I am going to allow mounted weapons switching during requisition phase for my group, requisition has to be paid normally however as if requisitioning any other item. One can still mount the pistol or combat knife from the free equipment without having to pay any requisition. Hence either giving an always ready parry tool in form of the knife or an always ready pistol, which is nice to have in itself, while the techmarine is using both hands for something else. My personal favorite right now is the mounted chainfist

AdamJWhite said:

1. Most will pay for Mechadendrite use (weapon) anyway.
2. Wait - why can't they use a chainsword attached to a servo-arm by spending a reaction?

Alex

I would have thought that Mechadendrite-Use (Weapon) would be unecessary. The description for Mecadendrtie Use (Servo-arm) states it counts as both Weapon and Utility for servo-arms. Machinator array states the weapon is mounted to your existing mechadendrite. Since it's a weapon mounted on a servo-arm, Mechadendrite Use (Servo-arm) has you covered.

(Also, the Power Fist thing doesn't actually matter much: A servo-arm's existing gripper/hand/claw is a better weapon than a servo fist unless you have a very high strength or really need a power field. Heck, in the 3rd and 4th editions of the tabletop game it was a power fist. I was just trying to give an example of an expensive melee weapon that shouldn't be given out for free.)

For the record, I posed this question to Customer Support and received the following reply from Ross Watson:

Hello there,

For the purposes of the Machinator Array, the Techmarine can mount any pistol or close combat weapon he has as standard issue (e.g., a Bolt Pistol) or any pistol has acquired as a Signature Wargear item.

At the GM's discretion, he may allow you to buy a particular weapon for the mechadendrite like a cybernetic.

Somewhat related to what you are talking about, so I didnt feel it nessecary to make a new thread. Do the stat increases from the talent increase your base stats? And thus get the benefit from unnatural? Or is it like the bonus strength from armor and does not get doubled?