Ok I'm playing in a deathwatch group and i have a question about heavy weapons.

1st off anyone in the group can carry one correct? Is there a limit on how many are allowed in the group?

2nd What are the rules on carrying them? We have an assault marine( heavy bolter w/clips), a techmarine (heavy flamer), a tactical marine ( heavy flamer) and a devastor marine ( heavy bolter). My question on this part is, is there a way to clip the heavy weapon to your armour so you can pull out 2 chainsword? Or do you always have to carry it in your hands and lets say in close combat you can pull out just one melee weapon( heavy weapon placed in your other hand). I am on the side of you always need to be holding it in your hands, seeing as it is a big bulky heavy weapon.

poohbear said:

1st Correct and there is no rules limit. However I would encourage any GM to let the team's Watch Captain inspect loadout before the mission begins, basically giving things a sanity check and re-arranging loadout, if necessary. For example, it makes no sense if even the Assault marine carries a heavy weapon. Someone needs to be able to fend off any enemy who comes close after all.

2nd Yes, I am with you there. The heavy weapon occupies one hand.

I'd also say that you could warn your players of other difficulties (for example it might be more difficult to sneak up without being seen). Basically I see it like this - your team could do this but the Assault with a heavy weapon should be a no-no. That's not his role on the team (and two bolt pistols can be more effective against a horde than a HB). With a HB less, your team might want to reconsider its options of heavy weapons.

Btw, a Storm Bolter (I wonder why he gives up his free per-mission special ammunition?) is a viable alternative for the Tactical.

Alex

Well what the 3 are doing is carrying the heavy weapons " on their armour" and pulling it out when they want to use it. I dont see in any of the deathwatch rules that say they can or cant do this , but i figure they couldnt be doing this only cause it is a heavy weapon. The tact marine is also carrying a bolter and a pistol same with the tech marine, the assault marine has a bolter and or a pistol plus 2 chainswords. To me that is way to much to be carrying and have the heavy weapon strapped to you as you fight.

poohbear said:

Looking at the illustrations and the minis, I don't see tacking the heavy weapon onto the armour. Please read the text on the left column of page 208 too. No Heavy Weapons plus Bolter.

Alex

The other thing to note, is that an assault marine should either take an ammo backpack and forfeit their jump pack, or only have the ammo stored within the heavy bolter (60 rounds, so 6 turns of full auto). Don't let them get away with "infinite" ammo with a HB.

There's nothing in the rules to stop the players carrying so many heavy weapons... that's your job. Just have the watch captain say 'no'.

I would also not allow characters to 'clip' a heavy weapon away and use two melee weapons. To me a ruling that you can only use one hand in melee is fair: The other hand is being used to keep the heavy weapon 'out of the way' and prevent it hampering the marine. If players still try to insist on it, then I'd cheerfully levy at least a -20 to all attacks because their weapon is flapping around. The only heavy weapon I'd consider ignoring this with would be the heavy flamer with a backpack ammo supply. After all: The weapon itself is essentially the end of a hosepipe and just as viable to sling as a (normal) bolter.

Siranui said:

Have a look at the heavy flamer pic on page 149.

Alex

Siranui said:

confirmed.

Only because there is no rule against doesn't mean your players don't have to roleplay it.

A heavy weapon is a bulky tool of utter destruction that reqires ammunition, power supply and so on and is mostly combined with some sort of supply on the Astartes' Backpack, connected by an ammo belt, hose or cable. Even in close combat it's necessary to hold the weapon with at least one hand to prevent this connection from being damaged.

just my two cent.

poohbear said:

There is nothing in the rules against this, but....

Why? As a GM, I would find it excessive and against the rules of combat for marines in a specialized squad like a DW KT. For starters, the HB would get in the way of the Assault's two weapon fighting unless he plans on dropping the HB everytime he decides to wade into melee combat (at which time, there is a good chance of that HB gets damaged or destroyed as the result of the chaos of combat). Plus I would see it as a major problem with him using his jumppack carrying a heavyweapon, making him over-balanced. But if he still wanted to jump with one, I would give him a -40 to -60 to his Pilot (personal) skill test.

A Tac Marine... Maybe, but I would only allow him to carry one other basic or smaller weapon.

A TechMarine with a heavy weapon? Ok, so did he leave behind his Servo-Arm? Because I would see the Servo-Arm and backpack ammo getting in the way of each other. I can possibly maybe see the TechMarine with a Missile Launcher but that is the only heavy wpn I can see him carrying with little problems.

At one point you have to consider this, it may not say you can or cannot in the rules but common sense should apply.

For example: yes the other day, the TechMarine in my Alpha Team group said his Servo-Arm was going to be carrying a satchel/case of spare ammo for the team, in the way of 75 clips of shotgun ammo, 50 clips of Bolter ammo and 15 clips of Bolt Pistol ammo. I look at him and said No. Then I told him why. Said it was excessive, that their Watch Captain said it was wasteful and would cost you a lot of requistion points. Plus I mentioned that would get in his way and that Space Marines don't think like that, that they carry just enough to get the mission done and if they do run out of ammo, that they will revert to their combat knives, bare fists or find replacements on the field. Carrying around that excessive amount of ammo is just not in the Space Marine's line of thinking. He accepted my answer, begrudgingly but understood.

There, added my 2 cents worth. (and I noticed I used the word 'excessive' quite a bit here.

I don't wanna sound mean or harsh or anything, but c'mon now.. Clipping heavy bolters onto armour so you can swing swords around? Behave!!

Where does a Marine clip a heavy bolter? Back pack power supply? Nope. It would be clogging up vents and such, and one good shot in the back detonates the weapon, ammo, and his generator, making a big messy stain and possibly taking out the whole squad. On his armour? Like, where, seriously?

I know that in 40K, with SM armour, you have to leave a little sense of realism at the door, but assault marines slinging heavy weapons is getting a bit silly. There is also a reason they make Suspensors.

Also, in most cases, weapons are physically, cable-linked to the Marines' armour. This is to feed it power, link sighting systems to his helmet, etc etc... How does all that work if a character is unattaching and reattaching his weapon between combats?

OP: I would suggest you get your players to pick up a few Space Marine miniatures and tell you where exactly they're going to put those heavy weapons.

A Devastator Marine carries his for the mission. That's his pride-bourne burden, and relinquishes it only in the most dire mission-necessary circumstances.

To be honest, this kind of power-gaming annoys the crap out of me, but I'm old and crotchety. But I do understand all players are different. I don't know your group's background of course.

My advice is to read through the advice here, pick up some actual miniatures, load up on imagery, slap a big dose of common sense on the problem, and try to help your players understand.

ak-73 said:

WTF?!

Oh...of course...silly me... they have to make it as big as other heavy weapons so that they can charge as much for the extra lead on the minis as other heavy weapons...

If the mission calls for it I wouldn't be opposed to letting the assault marine req a HB as his only weapon, but carrying around two melee weapons, a heavy weapon, and pistols is silly.

I would make every test a hellish test to account for the extra encumbrance and all of that stuff shifting unexpectedly every time they move.
I would have them make a challenging test to walk from point A to point B on level ground to avoid dropping something and tripping on it.

Better yet, avoid the clown act and have the Watch Commander just say no.