I dont see anything where you cant use 2 storm bolters at once. It doesnt seem to fit the fluff. I have a power gamer in the group wanting to roll with it and I dont want to say no simply because I dont like it.

that being said you could technically dual wield melta guns and plasma guns too. Just doesnt feel right. I will probably nix it on the munchkin aspect alone.

It is LEGAL RAW written right? It just seems like a ton of potential damage. I know they cannot be used in CC so thats a drawback.

Yes, It is perfectly legal, though perhaps a bit overpowered...

DW is game well suited for Power Gamers but it also build in some safe guards against it.
Requisition points expenditure should be heavily regulated and off course the Master of Arms (or whatever title you give the man) will have to approve it, think of it, most weapons are considered artifects, especially things such as Storm Bolter and akin.
So you don't have to say no OOC its even easier to say it IC, and by the time the pc's Hero Status you could well allow it once or twice.

What you also could do is allow it once or twice and hammer him with Close Combat which makes his Storm Bolters only usefull as Glorified Clubs, or have him lose one, could you imagen the scolding.

I don't think I have ever seen anyone bring up this aspect of the storm bolter.

Since a storm bolter is Basic. Yes, dual wielding them is legal by RAW, common sense says no. A Watch Commander does have the right to refuse requisition requests as being unreasonable. Two storm bolters falls squarely in the unreasonable column.

My idea, in a different thread, of bumping storm bolters to the heavy category all of a sudden makes a lot more sense.

Santiago said:

Ack! Don't let the quartermaster hear you say that.

But yes what Santiago and ItsUncertainWho said, sure by the RAW you can do it, but that marine who shows up at the armory requesting two (generally only given to those in terminator armor or Captains) would be told sternly no, by the quartermaster.

I read your reasoning on SB and agreed.

Its really only the powergamers/min maxers that this is a problem with usually. Most of my players are more about the 'coolness' factor of being a marine than how many dice they can roll.

We started with 50 req and are gonna go from there. I will probably let him do it from time to time.

ItsUncertainWho said:

chrismata said:

While by RAW dual-wielding basic weapons would be allowed, a lot of folks have said they wouldn't allow it in their campaign. So no dual Bolters and therefore no dual Storm Bolters. I use the "Bolter can be fired one-handed" rule only so that the player can do with other hand something else, like readying a grenade or opening a lock or the like.

My 2 cents.

Alex

I'd just say that if he takes two, all the ammo and other parts of the weapons would force the marine to not take melee weapons. Combine that with a house rule to not allow the one handed use of a melee attachment, and the threat of being useless in CC will make them shy away.

KommissarK said:

Wrist-/Shoulder-Mounted Bolt Pistol. And/or a kill-team servitor to carry all the ammunition.

I just don't like the sight of dual-wielded bolters. The minis don't have them and I won't allow them.

Alex

50 req is quite a lot especially for a rank 1 character, on basic ("easy") missions. Our group have so far had 30-40 req to play around with, and sure, we haven't gotten everything we might have wanted, but what's fun in that? You need some trade-offs, and you can always pool the req together to get something special for someone in the KT.

BrotharTearer said:

Perhaps they're using the core book? The table in the main book is pretty easy to get up to 50 req- a Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary objective all on Novice will get you 43. An extra secondary or some added difficulty and 50 is close at hand.

Now the eratted version will give you 33 instead of 43 for that same mission. While I've not tested either out extensively I tend to like the look and feel of the eratted version.

And +1 on the 'just don't allow dual wielded automatic basic weapons.' Just say no for standard missions, allow it perhaps in a moment in the field where epicness is the name of the game (last stand, picks up fallen brother's storm bolter to take as much of the horde down before he dies himself kind of drama).

Don't forget the fluff, either.

In most cases, a bolter is somewhat like a samurai's katana, it's sacred to him. Not to mention that even inside Erioch's impressive armoury, basic weapons are still limited. Bolters are not quite as mass-produced as, say, a lasgun. Whilst being a basic weapon, they are still quite often specific to an individual marine, cared for and customised, etc etc.

Stormbolters are even more sacred, and usually only available to leaders and Terminators because of their rarity and prized role in assault actions.

Not only would the Master of Arms fown upon he potential for TWO relics being lost, but greedy Marines are even rarer, and to his comrades, a Marine that requires two Bolter weapons must obviously be deficient in some way, lacking skill, or requires more training and time at the range.

I understand the tactical necessity for extra special weapons among KT's, such is the nature of their missions. But another reason that a Space Marine carries only his individual weapon and CC stuff, is because he simply DOES NOT need anything else to smite his enemies!

Rules make things possible, but players should never put rules before atmosphere, fluff, and common sense. As Chris Rock once said, "You can drive a car with your feet, but that don't make it a good f'kin idea!"

we are staring at Rank 2. 19k experience i believe.

We will have a Inquisitor with 19k and geared out appropriately 6 to 7 DW marines possibly 1 SOB and a few members of the INQ retinue.

Half of the PC's will be pregens I make and the other half will be the more permanent members of the group.

is 50 req not enough for a group like that you think? I know its mission to mission but I wanted a base load out for them so when I kit bash the minis they always represent a base armament.

BrotharTearer said:

I didnt rule it out completely but I did rule that if you have 2 main weapons you cant carry CC weapon. So they would SUCK in CC.

ive got a storm wardens assault marine in my party that wanted 2 storm bolters wrist mounted so what i did is allow it but counted it as twin linked an double ammo expended easy enough fix for me

worldeater1 said:

This is house-ruled though, right? Because as per rulebook only pistol-class weapons can be arm-mounted and SB cannot.

Alex

chrismata said:

50 Req total or each? 50 each (and req is handed out to each KT party member as per RAW) seems to be on the high side of things to me. I would expect most missions to have at least 30 req, except for very short ones, so that may be a good place to start.

Or when planing to kitbash plan for mid/high level mission requisition and just let them dream when they watch their minis when they're on lower req missions.

Was gonna try 50 each then adjust up and down from there.

Its gonna be on the high side of difficulty most times.

Charmander said:

Sure you can use two storm bolters (or two flamers). Not what I'd recommend, but there are times when just spewing out maximum firepower might be useful. I'd generally recommend a more balanced assortment of weapons, but I've seen bolter and storm bolter used together after req. a single storm bolter and it was quite effective - so much so that I'm not sure it's worth the req to get a second storm bolter.

I can't help but think that Basic weapons deserve a -20 when fired one handed in power armour.

It's a cool thing to do, but not something that should be routinely performed.

Siranui said:

I'll stick to my rule: you can fire it with one-hand (without penalty) but you can't make an attack with the other hand. Thus the Marines have still an off-hand to do other stuff (climbing a hill or whatever) while doing proficient shooting with their main hand and it doesn't go overboard with dual bolter-wielding. If I gave it -20, it would be hardly worth shooting in many instances. Not giving a penalty just underlines how bada** the marines are, don't you think?

Alex

Oh, simply don't allow them 2 Storm Bolters for a single marine (or have another marine requisite it for the other), its already a great honour to wield one storm bolter.

Don't make rules to cover power gamers,...

Marines are always Ambidextrous and yes they can fire 2 basic weapons with great eas, let them.
If the players want to wield 2 Bolt Pistols no one would care, they would say, looks cool, 2 bolters is pushing it, 2 Storm Bolters simply goes too far.
Just simply clarify this too your players, its not befitting the setting.

I'm not actually a fan of firing weapons one handed. They have foregrips for a reason, and that reason is that it makes them a lot more accurate. We've already discussed at length that SM Bolters are better than DH ones mainly due to size, and that 'mortals' can't use such weapons due to recoil, so it seems strange that a variant of a weapon that can only physically be fired by Astartes which has twice the normal recoil (ie stormbolters) can be fired just as accurately one handed.

I'm not saying that others should do it 'my' way; I'm simply outlining my logic and generally being a bit baffled as to why the designers were fine with Astartes weapons being fired fully auto, one handed, without penalty.

I wonder if I'm missing something, but with a storm bolter in each hand, you'll still need some trick to get two different actions that allow you to fire, since you can't do the same half-action twice (HALF ACTIONS, 236).

If your player is using the two-weapon wielder talent, then even if he fires both full auto (which does not seem to be the intent of the talent), he is still at -20 to each gun, which equates to about four fewer shots scored (TWO-WEAPON WIELDER, 128). If the trait does not allow for full-auto fire, then you only get two shots, which is just about worthless.

I get why everyone is saying it is legal to HOLD both guns, but I don't get the justification for being able to FIRE both. Is there a rule I'm missing that counteracts the two I have cited?

Scoates said:

Yes it's -20 but all Marines have Ambidextrous which reduces it to -10. Combine with +20 for full-auto each, possibly short range +10, possibly +20 to +40 for size of horde or BBEG and this is no problem at all. You only need 3 DoS after all.

Alex

yes i house ruled it i liked the idea so did he so we went with it plus the model he made looks amazing