Hey,

I'm trying to delay the PC's from Finding out the identity of a Necromancer they are dealing with. Is there a power that I could use to disguise the fact that he is a Necromancer? The Party has a Wiz with a 5 intelligence and it is really hard to hide anything from him.

Thrak

Thrakazog said:

If it's in the best interrest of the story you could allow the necromancer to use the "GM power necklace of magical stealth". But if he doesn't use magic, then there is nothing for the wizard to see.

Really? I thought magical sight worked on people or even places that had used / been affected by magic...

The trouble with the 'necklace of magical concealment' is that everyone needs one. When I start a campaign, I plan to just not let magical sight work this way. Perhaps that it will only work on magic being actively used. So a magic sword won't appear magical until it's swung in battle. Then a wizard would be able to see its magical nature, and perhaps for a few moments afterwards, like an effect that gradually fades away.

I tend to approach it in the opposite way. Everything has winds of magic around it, which wind depends on whats its made of. Magical items have stronger winds, but unless your really skilled at it, you have difficulty noticing the stronger sources from the background noise. So Novices have a hard time with magical sight.

Also a really strong wizard could probably create magic items that are hard to distinguish from other items or use cantrips (similar to how they are used in some of the published adventures) to not only manipulate their physical appearence but wether or not they standout from the background magical winds.

In ToM it talks about being able to see auras of magic items magic users and being able to pick out a Chaos Sorcerer in a room full of Wizards with 3D challenge. Why would a Chaos Sorcerer ever come out of hiding?

That makes it hard for any kind of magical subterfuge subplots.

It's pretty much as GullyFoyle said. The Winds of Magic are EVERYWHERE. The trick for magical sight is being able to sort out the differences. When the winds are weak, it is pretty easy and manipulation of a wind is fairly easy to spot. When the winds are strong, it is extremely difficult to tell the 'natural' flows from the manipulations and emanations of others.

So, you can basically "cheat" and just say the winds are too strong and erratic at this time/location to get a good reading.

Thrakazog said:

It possible that its easier to pick the Choas Sorcerer out of a crowd of mages (still Hard 3d) because you can compare him/her to the others ... it might be impossible to pick them out (as choas) others wise. I believe this would have to be the case otherwise there would be no Choas Sorcerers in any public setting.

So it would be easy to tell they manipulate magic, but very difficult to tell they manipulate dark magic, without contrasting him/her to others mages.

But I should reread the example you mention

(also I could see Morrslieb effect the winds in the way dvang describes.)

Edit: The ToM mentions you might have to be engaged with a wizard to detect a weak wizards aura so it also depends on the strength of the caster. And don't forget its not always on - requires a maneuver to start Magical Sight.

I approach this from a realistic point of view...

If wizards of moderate+ power could detect necromancer/cultist magic users, just by using magical sight all the time, we'd have squads of wizards plowing through the Empire rooting them up constantly.

So I field the theory that winds of magic rage through the countryside all the time, both negative (Dhar) and standard winds. To actually detect the magic used by a certain magic user (be it amber, necro, tze), would require the user to actively use magic! When the user has some magic recharging (be it a ritual, magic item or whatever), the magic slowly gets blured by the other winds.

So while there might be traces left of a wizard who used Dhar, these traces will be so minimal that it would take immense insight to actually see that Dhar was used in the location.

Consider taking a bucket of sand, and it in the ocean. The second you it, people will notice it. But it swiftly gets washed away, and while the traces will tecnically remain there for a long time, it'll be to blured to notice. Consider dropping a whole shipload of sand in one location, again to begin with you notice, but over time it washes away...

In our Old World the winds only bend around and is disturbed by wizards when they are either channeling or casting a spell. This means there is no way of noticing a wizard if he keeps a low profile. Magical items can be noticed at all times, since they store magical energy.

I see a wizard as a musician. You may notice the violin, but unless he starts playing you won't know if he's really a musician. It's even harder to see what kind of musician he is. Although he's carrying a violin, he could still be a rock musician or play death metal. His appearance may give that away, but then again he could just be a fan or have a bad taste in clothes. But the moment he starts playing his music you can hear and conclude what it is.

If this wasn't the case, there is no way chaos sorcerers can hide in Altdorf and since "the enemy within" is a major theme in the game I think it's fair to assume that wizards not using magic can easily hide and not be detected by magical sight, if they don't carry any magical items. And then magical items doesn't mean that someone is a wizard and certainly not a chaos worshipper.

Have a look at this thread on Hapimeses website, http://hapimeses.com/forum/index.php/topic,522.0.html

It is quite inspirational. The idea that I get from this is that the winds are everywhere in greater or lesser quanity. Just because someone can sense the wind does not have to mean that it is a sign of a mage / necromancer / chaos cultist / etc. The winds flow around everything - mundane or magical.

I would just pass on the list in the first item of the thread above and everytime your mage uses magic sight just say that the swirling rainbow of the winds seem to be more red / dull / glowing around that person or object. A watchman with an hourglass could attract winds of a more amythist hue - but that does not make him a amythist wizard. Over time and depending on the number of comets / successes you can become more discriptive, but he will still have to make his own interpretation of what you are describing.

Alp

Hi,

The party I gm for has a grey wizards apprentice who is ruthless with investigations aided by magical sight. I also have at least two hidden spellcasters within the long term plot. I have gone for a ruling of generic scanning an area for evidence of magic users/history of spells as base 3D difficulty with fortune/misfortune as required. This has the effect of making it tough but acheivable for said character, but with the drawback of a fair chance that abuse of this skill will quickly accumulate stress (narratively its tiring work). For the hidden wizard concept have you considered him being an ex member of a college and having access to a colour as well as dhar? You could add misfortune dice based on his discipline training and then a base pass only reveals his college colour, a number of boons may be required to determine his relationship with dhar.

Hope that helps

Have fun

Along with what has already been said, to help your NPC, you could use some Rank difference approach, like the casting higher rank spells one : your Sorceror has +1 or +2 Rank(s) over your player Wizard, which adds Challenge(s) to his related Magical Sight tests.

You Can also say that your Sorceror is taking measures to protect himself, by not using the "wrong" Winds before going out, etc.

Wow, those are a lot of great ideas! Thanks!

I'm definitely going to take the suggestions that particular Winds (Dhar, in this case), will only be visible while actively or very recently being used. He's going to be doing a lot more harm with his lies before he needs to dip into dark magic.

I like the suggestion of my Necro being a former College Wizard. I think the idea that was a Grey Wizard would fit with my concept.

I can definitely see how a rank differential could add Challenge or Misfortune dice. Hmmm.

I also like the idea of certain Winds being attracted to certain kinds of people or things. I think that adds a lot of flavor. This was in the link that Alp mentioned:

______________

Magic........Attracted to…
Amber.......Atavism, Brutality, Dominance, Ferocity, Frenzy, Isolation, Remoteness, Stubbornness, Wild Animals, Wildernesses
Amethyst...Battlefields, Boundaries, Clocks, Death, Gardens of Morr, Gibbets, Longing, Reverence, Respect, Silence
Bright........Anger, Arguments, Dynamism, Excitement, Heat, Impulsiveness, Flames, Passion, Pride, Vehemence
Celestial.....Anticipation, Clear Skies, Dreams, Imagination, Inspiration, Inventiveness, Hope, Omens, Patience, Prophecies
Gold...........Heavy Metals, Greed, Experimentation, Industry, Logic, Knowledge, Science, Obsessiveness, Rationality, Wealth
Grey..........Confusion, Distrust, Gales, Independence, Intrigue, Lies, Fog, Shadows, Storms, Wisdom
Jade..........Animals, Fecundity, Friendship, Healthiness, Plant Life, Rain, Soil, Summer, Stone Circles, Water
Light..........Beauty, Contemplation, Enlightenment, Faith, Holiness, Illumination, Pacifism, Purity, Pyramids, Truth

Ice............Coldness, Freezing Weather, Indifference, Insensitivity, Kislev, Leylines, Patience, Reserve, Stone Circles, Vengefulness

______________

If things play out the way I want it to, they may need his help against a larger threat much later in the campaign. If any of you have read Perdido Street Station, I'm stealing the "Slake Moth" concept.

I will also point out that the WoM adventure briefly talks about magical sight and Chaos. Essentially, it says that the use of Chaos magic alters the winds in the area strangely. While the wizard might be able to realize that the winds are acting strange, he/she might not understand WHY they are strange. Whether it was caused by chaos, or a "natural" happening of the winds, or by some other wizard, etc, the wizard might not be able to understand/know.

dvang said:

I think that's the best explanation in this thread and a good way for the GM to let the NPC hide his true nature. The GM could ask for magical sight checks and then describe that something is amiss, but center the info around something else than the NPC to throw the players off.