I'm joining a Deathwatch game as a Techmarine and I have a few questions about the intent of the rules around acquiring a Servo-harness. I'm new to the DH/RT/DW ruleset, so I apologize if this is a silly question.

At Rank 4, a Techmarine can obtain the Servo-harness Integration talent. This, on its own, does not grant the Techmarine a servo harness, right?

When a Techmarine becomes Respected, he gets a free bionic (which is Exceptional because he is Respected.) Since a Servo-harness requires the user to be Famed, the Techmarine cannot yet get a Servo-harness, correct? Or does he bypass that restriction by not actually requisitioning the harness?

When a Techmarine becomes Famed, get gets another free bionic (which is Master-crafted because he is Famed.) Can he now requisition a free harness?

Is a servo-harness ever less than Master-crafted in the hands of a techmarine, since he must be Famed to obtain one? (Meaning the common and exceptional conditions for them would only exist in the hands of NPCs?)

The cybernetics rules state that cybernetics stay with the character, but Servo-arms and Harnesses are built into the Techmarine's armor rather than his flesh, so I just wanted to verify that I won't have to pay 50 requisition for every mission to keep my servo harness (or buy Signature Gear) instead of reverting to my Standard Issue servo-arm. Am I correct?

Does Master-crafted actually do anything for most cybernetics, or is it just cosmetic? None of the ones in the book give any extra benefits after Exceptional, unless I'm missing something, or Master-crafted is required to get the "some items my do blah, blah, or blah" mentioned at the end of some entries.

When a character crosses a renown threshold, is he allowed to re-requisition cybernetics in order to upgrade them, by paying the one-time cost again?

Is it possible to use a servo-arm or harness with Terminator armor?

The talent does not grant the harness, no.

Need to be Famed to req a servo-harness, not to take the talent (which isn't dependant on your renown rank). And no bypassing renown prereq.

If you have the talent when reaching Famed renown, you could use the free master-crafted cybernetic to get a servo-harness. But you could also, if you so choose, get something else, and take a servo-harness as a req cost for some mission, as per the cybernetic rules - if you can afford it, that is.

Yes, it can be less than master-crafted, as per the discription (mentions the bonuses for it being exceptional). Remember, you can get cybernetics with your ordinary req for missions, not just "free" when you increase your renown rank to Respected and Famed, as you would in the case above.

Correct. It's still plugged into you/your armour from now on. Would be strange if it didn't follow the general cybernetics rules. Although, it's not "permanent", as a bionic heart would be (as stated in the introduction section).

There's no specific, but I'd say it's up to the GM to decide if master-crafted does anything special in-game. Maybe some bonus to some test or similar, depending on the cybernetics, as suggested in the Craftmanship-section.

Yes, as the free ones from increased renown mentions it can be an upgrade to an existing system, it'd seem possible you could upgrade system outside of the free ones too.

As I doubt a terminator armour is compatible with a servo-harness (or even a servo-arm?), I find it hard to believe. But techmarines are probably better off with their Artificer armour at rank 5 anyway.

BrotharTearer said:

Techmarines do not wear Terminator armor in the TT that I've ever noted. This is likely because their mechadendrite systems cannot be mounted to the armor. So, yeah, Techmarines are often better off with their Artificer Armor.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Brother Praetus said:

A high-rank Techmarine in Artificer Armour should have little troubles running along a bunch of Terminators. The question is - which awards do they get? Do they get Terminator honours at all? I've been quite a bit out of the hobby but I don't remember seeing a Crux on a Techmarine.

Alex

ak-73 said:

Nope, per the TT, Techmarines do not have Terminator Honors. The Crux Terminatus is typically reserved for those who have earned a place in the 1st Company. Veteran Sergeants have also earned the Crux Terminatus, though not all may have actually served in the vaunted 1st Company. Most Captains are also promoted from the 1st Company Veterans.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Brother Praetus said:

Wrong!in 2nd edition TT is was possible to equip a Techmarine with a terminator Armor. it was also possible to attach a servo-arm. So ist seems Techmarines can get Crux Terminatus.

Also in 3rd Editon TT it was possible to transform 1 MArine of the command Squad to a Techmarine who also could get a Crux Terminatus.

by the way is the Crux nothing reserved for places in the 1. company. it is an honour awarded for Valor, Honour and bravery. Those awarded with the Crux become trained in the use of Terminator armors and gain with that the honur and the right to bear Termiator armors.

BrotharTearer said:

I must not be understanding this properly. A Techmarine must be Famed to requisition a Servo-harness at all, correct? And the quality of Cybernetics isn't based on the requisition paid, like normal equipment, but is instead based on the Renown of the character it is being installed on, right? So in any case in which a Techmarine could acquire a Servo-harness, it would be Master-Crafted, if I understand that right.

(Though, I suppose a Rank 4+ Techmarine with Servo-harness Integration who is not yet Famed (or just hasn't bought a Servo-harness yet) could pry a servo harness backpack off a dead Chaos Techmarine or deceased allied Techmarine and wear it for the rest of the mission, but would have to inter it in the Watch Station vault after their return.)

Actually I have another servo-arm/harness related question: the Machinator Array talent specifies that the character may mount a pistol or melee weapon to their Servo-arm or harness. Must this weapon be requisitioned? Is it an additional limb, or is it somehow attached on the same stalk as a servo-fist?

Vendettar said:

If you want to go back two and three editions, go ahead. I'm talking from 5th edtion, Techmarines do not have, nor can they be given, Terminator Honors. Arguably, the Master of the Forge has earned them, as he is Attack 2. In 4th, all Techmarines were Attack 2 , and therefore might be considered to have Terminator Honors. Yes, I know in previous editions they could be definitively given such Honors, but that has since been removed. I'll be sure to preface any further references to the TT to "current rules and specific editions" form now on.

Vendettar said:

Pretty sure I covered this when I said " Veteran Sergeants have also earned the Crux Terminatus, though not all may have actually served in the vaunted 1st Company ." Not to be inflammatory, but did you only fixate on part of my post, and not read the whole of it?

-=Brother Praetus=-

Jaxal said:

Must be Famed to be able to get one, yes.

The req price of quality is based on the craftmanship table on page 140, which have renown prereqs (need Distinguished to req Master-crafted items, for example) and Common to Master (which is the usual case when you're not upgrading anything) would be double req (req price x 2). So it's just like normal. Cybernetics and techmarines are not special, apart from the fact that a techmarine gets free cybernetics at two points when they reach a new renown tank (Resptected and Famed, Exceptional and Master-crafted respectively). Every other cybernetic part a techmarine wants, he has to requisition like anyone else, with applicable costs (for higher craftmanship) and he has to be able to get them (renown rank prereqs). A techmarine could choose a Master-crafted Bionic Heart for his Famed free one, and then req a Common Servo-harness for his next mission, if he so wanted to - but that'd be rather stupid.

Jaxal said:

Doubt that, as he'd have troubles installing it himself (and I assume that takes a while), and he doesn't have the talent, which, going by its discription, seems to be needed to be able to use a servo-harness.

Jaxal said:

You have to actually req a weapon to be able to use it. The talent says it's mounted, so it's attached to one of the limbs of the array.

BrotharTearer said:

I got the impression from the text on 176: "The craftsmanship of the mechanical replacement varies with the Battle-Brother's Renown as detailed on Table 5-23: Cybernetics Replacement Craftsmanship." and the associated table that the craftsmanship upgrades were based on Renown (not just access to them) and that the upgrade cost is free (because it'd be silly to be required to buy a more expensive bionic if you're Famed when your arm got blown off.)

Am I misunderstanding something? Are bionics hard to get masterwork than ordinary gear (since Master-crafted stuff is normally available at Distinguished, but bionics would have to be Famed?) Does table 5-23 only apply to bionics requisitioned as actual replacements (i.e. needing a new arm because yours is missing, as opposed to just buying exceptional for the strength bonus?)

Jaxal said:

Well, I'll be damned. I missed that one. Seems I was incorrect in assuming it followed the general craftmanship and req rules. Going by that it seems that whenever you req a cybernetic, it goes by your current renown to determine its craftmanship. So, by going by an earlier example, when you ding Famed, you can opt to get a free Master-crafted Bionic Heart, and then for your next mission requisition a Servo-harness for 50 req, which will be Master-crafted, because you're Famed.

Apart from the two free ones you may opt to get (when turning Respected and Famed), all cybernetic installments cost you req, but that's a one time fee and are permanent.

And yes, the renown is higher for cybernetics than other items in the armoury to get Master-crafted, Famed (cybernetics) vs. Distinguished (general). The plus side with cybernetics, is that you don't pay twice the standard req price for them.

I hope this clears up the confusion I sparked before when I had totally missed that particular bit of text and table.

The one-time cost thing really doesn't ring right with me. I don't know what others think, but essentially it's allowing players to gain what is essentially permanent wargear with a one-off mission cost. So there's nothing to stop PCs devoting -say- 20 points each mission to cybernetics and slowly becoming cyborgs with +2TB on all limbs.

Siranui said:

I interpret page 176 to mean that normal Space Marines only get prosthetics, replacements for severely wounded/destroyed body parts. Only Iron Hands and Techmarines can requisition Cybernetics otherwise.

Alex

Apart from the aforementioned Iron Hands and Techmarines, Marines in the background generally only take on cybernetics to replace body parts lost in combat. Their Emperor-given geneseed organs are more than enough to slaughter His foes. Besides, cybernetics make you vulnerable to EMP...

Marines are already pretty vulnerable to it, considering their power armour, plasma weapons, auspexes... The loss of another limb is almost moot if you're stuck inside unpowered power armour!

That's a fair point but a Marine with no functioning limbs is going to find struggling in depowered armour even more of a challenge. And there is always scout carapace for those extra-stealthy missions.

Decessor said:

In true Monty Python spirit we'll call it a draw.

Alex

Thanks to the input in this thread and rigorous re-readings of the Armory, I've reached the following conclusions:

If a Space Marine requires a replacement limb (because he lost his real one in the line of duty), his cybernetic is free, and its quality is based on his Renown, because the Deathwatch isn't going to send a one-armed Marine off to do battle, and the Forge/Apocetharion will give him a limb suitable to his status. (Servo-arms are Standard Issue for techmarines, but are not vital for life, so it is unclear if you get a Common servo-arm or one based on your renown as a free replacement if it is somehow destroyed or lost in the line of duty.)

If a Space Marine chooses to lop off a perfectly good limb because he's an Iron Hand, Techmarine, is buying an Augur Array or other non-replacement implant, or just wants the toughness bonus, he must pay the requisition cost, using the normal renown limits and multipliers for the cybernetic, like any other gear. This means the Marine can purchase better gear sooner than he'd get it as a replacement due to renown, so if he wants an Exceptional hand when his flesh-and-bone one was gnawed off by a Knarloc but he's only Distinguished, he has to pay the 23 requisition before his next mission for the upgrade.

Despite being removable, Servo-arms and Servo-harnesses follow the normal rules about cybernetics being a one-time payment. Servo-arms are standard issue for those who would use them, and so is moot. Servo harnesses are always referred to as having "owners" and "inheritors", so it sounds like it is intended that you keep them. Yes, this makes a Servo-harness a very good buy in the long run, because it gets a flamer and plasma pistol for every mission for free once you pay up. That said, a Servo-harness also requires the sacrifice of 1,000 XP, which may be a bit more fair.