So I have a group, we have been together for about 2 years (with a rather large break in between.) I have always been the GM. We started with Dark Heresy and all was pretty good. We moved on to Deathwatch with 4 players total.

The issues I have is we have is 2 of the players really know nothing of the 40k universe, and they dont seem like they want to know. They never read any "Fluff" they just play the game to play the game. Also 3 of the 4 don't essentially roleplay at all, and rarely do anything outside of shooting things. Most of the time if theres any form of investigation the 3 sit back and read up on skills or weapons, and our main (who is also the best because he pretty much knows everything 40k, and isn't super serious or a pain.) player does everything. Essentially most of the time outside of combat they go on auto follow, occasionally giving an opinion.

I as a GM generally run a loose game, I am not hard on the players by being a super rules enforcer (unless I need to be.), and really just like having a solid gaming group to play with. How do I get the 3 other players involved without being an ass? I know they would enjoy the game 100x more if they knew a little more about the background and actually got into roleplaying even a little.

We are currently on the start of Emperor Protects. What can I do to get everyone more involved on a story based sort of level?

The backround to the players is they all play 40k table top.

1st player knows everything 40k and is also a great roleplayer with alot of pen and paper backround.

2nd knows some backround on 40k, but doesn's have alot of pen and paper experience.

3rd knows no real backround of 40k and no background in pen and paper.

4th is the same as third.

Now they all seem generally curious and seem to like what they do know about 40k. If there is something they don't know, they will ask.

I can kind of ramble, sorry if this went on a little longer then it should have. How do I get them to be more involved without forcing?

Thank you!

To be honest, there is not much to be done about the basic problem in my experience. There are players of different inclinations and that does hardly change if ever. Some people don't game to roleplay but to blow up stuff and collect their gold and xp, so-to-speak. And then there are players who are bored of such quickly and prefer roleplay, investigations, etc or players that come inbetween, etc. There is not much do be done about the basic inclination .

Assuming that you don't want to exchange players, there are a few things that can be done though... even combat-oriented players can be made to occasionally catch on to role-playing and stuff. It just won't work if you give them the feeling that they have to roleplay all the time now. What I would do is just keep an eye on it during combat and stuff to create occasions for the players to become involved. In my last session I had this Stormtrooper dying and all he wanted in his last moments was to see the face of one of the Space Marines and touch it - instant role-playing opportunity.

So what I am saying is that while GMing... keep an eye on such opportunities and when inspiration hits and you think that a particular idea that just occured to you might appeal to one of the other players fling it at them.

As for investigational stuff... force them to investigate. There is various ways to do this: like putting the leading player out of action for the first half of the investigation and put time pressure on the rest. They'll have to learn it if they want to succeed the mission. Or have a new Watch Captain enforce rotating team leadership and force the players to adopt his ideas of an authoritarian leadership style. The team leader has to lead the investigation. More than an occasional piece of advice from the others is not acceptable.

Or you talk with the leading player about him missing out on an investigative mini-adventure (just a session or two) where the others are forced to do without him. Perhaps you could adapt one of the DH scenarios from here to Marine-level challenges:

www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp

In any case I wouldn't expect too much from your players in that instance; better to keep expectations low instead of getting disappointed for growing into the spirit may or may not take time.

Alex

If players are looking up game stats and not gaming, then you need to keep the game books and other reading materials OFF the table. I learned that a long while ago while running Cyberpunk.

Keep 'non game' entertainment away from the table, so that players either game or have nothing to do. That means no fiddling around on their iphones or computers: They're their to game.

You also might want to consider lending the players with poor knowledge some of the 40k novels if you have any, or buying them the novel(s) applicable for their character, so as they can read about them, understand them, and maybe want to roleplay that.

Also: Put the subdued players front and centre sometimes. Create situations that only THEY can deal with: A Native tribesman whose language is unknown, but bears a working resemblance to one of the PC's old tribal tongue or similar, for example

Welcome to the wonderful world of gaming. The only social gaming type you are missing is the munchkin, ie, the auxilary grenade launcher on an astartes combat knife.

Getting players involved if they do not want to be is never easy. Several players I run with on certain nights can't stop playing mini-games on their iPhones, or can't sit still and listen. They have to be fiddling with something, idle hands are the devils workshop, etc.

One of the greatest ways to get them interested is to suggest reading the Dan Abnett books out there, its not some über awesome reads, but they are great mind candy. Horus Rising (as well as the rest of the Heresy books) and the Ravenor/Eisenhorn trilogies are great reads. These may help to spark a character concept, or give some ideas to motivations the characters might have.

I wouldn't want to 'exclude' Player 1 to try and make Players 2-4 to get more motivated. I would just sit down at your next session and give them "the speech."

The speech that says that being a GM is not easy. There is a lot of reading involved, ideas and tweaks to adventures. Trying to guess what the players would do to make sure that you have that base covered in your head, or ready in case they think of something else. Doing this week in and week out with little attempt to interact within that story arc, other than rolling dice and seeing who is better doesn't do it for you as a GM. If they will not put out an effort than neither will you. If they are just getting together to 'hang-out' then just get some XBoxs and do that, or use the I am going to look for some new players, so that I am not wasting my time on an adventure that you don't really care about.

Its hard finding that niche sometimes. Punishing the player that tries wouldn't seem fair to me.

Suggesting the less involved players read some of the books is a good idea, but be prepared for the event that they decline. If they aren't interested in learning the fluff, then forcing it on them will only make them resentful and ultimately less inclined to continue playing the game.

I agree that removing unnecessary books and other distractions is probably wise. If they complain about needing time to read the options so they know how to advance their character, then tell them they're free to hang out before/after the session, or to borrow the books for the week in between. Make sure the unfolding action is the only thing they have to pay attention to while you're playing, and be up front about why you're removing all these distractions, too. Don't lie or avoid telling them why they can't keep their iPhone at the table.

Also, if the players are only interested in gaining XP, as it sounds like some of these guys are, then consider handing out XP for the non-combat stuff. If the one "good" player you have starts earning XP and money for having made a solid effort at negotiating with a local trade prince, the twinks will start to think about how they can earn XP and money doing similar things. Especially if all the obvious violent options dry up on a given planet. Again, however, be prepared for the possibility that these players won't bite. They might just continue to sit back and wait for combat. They might even start to lose interest in playing entirely if it goes long enough without a good tumble. Some players are just like that. I don't like it myself, but the only thing you can do is accept it or find new players.

Encouraging players by giving some of them more XP than others can be counterproductive, though. It will encourage the player who is getting more to be even more pro-active, and can smack of favouritism to the others. I would avoid doing so for now. and I'd break the fingers of players fiddling with iPhones like dry twigs!

It can sound a bit arrogant to simply announce it, but running a game takes more than 4 hours a week. The least the players can do is give their full attention while they are there for those 4 hours. Anything else is very insulting and demotivating.

I'd also consider getting some new players. Not dumping your old ones, but boosting your existing numbers.,

You could ask yourself the following question:

"What kind of experience do I want from DW?"

There's no reason why the GM shouldn't want to get something out of it. If, at the end of the day, you're really into the atmosphere of the 40K universe, and Space Marine stuff, then maybe it is actually time to consider a new group.

It doesn't have to be dramatic. I have many friends, and I play DW with the few that are mad about 40K, and D&D with those that aren't.

Yeah: Asking them what they want out of the game is certainly something that needs to be done. They might be enjoying not doing anything!

In my expereince, sometimes it's better to let the people who want to read up on stuff read up on stuff. When you clear the table or take their phones or laptops or books away, they'll sometimes distract other players, the ones that are engaging n the story. Additionally, if they're at least reading the 40k RP books, they're getting some of the fluff, right?

I've also found that some people are just luke warm to pen and paper RPGs- they don't think quick on their feet, they're not extra creative, and they don't like reading novels, and they seem to want to just hand out quietly rather than actually engage. They have trouble figuring out what the right thing to say is and rely a lot more on their stats than they do themselves- one reason why the players in my experinece prefer combat to RP scenarios. Sometimes they also seem to be embarassed or feel silly trying to act out what a guy would say or do in a sci-fi/fantasy setting.

To help engage and rectify this, I try several things. First, I try to pick encounters that are keyed to the lazy players and attempt to engage them. I start them off by making them easy and tease information and decisions out of the player, and end the dialog or what not with a hard dice roll (they seem to get a look of relief when I tell them to make a command check versus having to act out the speech). Another thing I'll do is try to pick out attributes, akills, or bits form the character's background (regardless of how shallow or sterotypical it is) and bring them to the fore; this seems to exite most of my disengaged players to a degree.

The experienced players in my group don't seem to mind the extra time taken with these guys, as most of them see right through what I'm trying to do and know (often first hand) how much extra work is involved. But that said, I'll only spend so much time trying to ease someone into an RPG story- at some point you have to say "he's just here to shoot bad guys and play on his phone" and as long as they're not disrupting your game and bothering other players, so be it. Though part of that opinion is that I know how hard it is to find players (let alone good ones), and most of the players in my group are also my friends and telling them to GTFO just plain feels wrong.

And for TEP specifically, here are some examples of things you might try:

In the intro part with Lan, look to the character backgrounds of the players, see if there is anything that you can tie into the current situation. A "you recall a time back with your home chapter where your platoon defended a Hospitaller temple- though not Battle Sisters, you recall the bravery and deication of the women that rose to defend the temple along side you, and the ones that helped tend to the wounds of your injured brothers."

On Horizon's Pride, chances are your engaged players will be trying to talk to and otherwise interact wth the crew. For the disengaged players have some of the ships crew engage them. Find some guys that are truly honored to be on board with Marines to contract the rest of the crew that's used to ferrying them about. Or feel free to get a little more heavy handed with the descriptions, and voilate the old addage 'show don't tell' and TELL the players things: "You find it odd and almost unsettling how casual the crew of the Horizon's Pride is regarding your presence. It's as though they don't know what you represent." Don't expect a lot at first from the players, you may have to tease it out of them

Good luck sir

Well from your post the guys are turning up, which suggests they at least want to play, however turning up to play and turning up becasue there is nothing better to do is 2 seperate things.

So firstly check out if they want to RP any game, or if they are passing time with mates. If RP is what they want to do, make sure that DW is the game they want to play.

Assuming we have 2/2 so far you now need to look at the group dynamics.

If the "Lead Player" is doing everything, are the others just leaving him to it, is the "Lead Player" hogging the time etc.

What I would do is actually engage the players individually with a sub plot. DW is perfect for this as chances are the players will be of a different chapter, even if they are the same chapter they could have been from a different company.

For the player showing the least activity have his chapter (maybe via chaplain or what not) request him to cover up some incidence or "recover" some item from the adventure. Ensure it is all secret, and that if the team ever find out his shame will be eternal. The specifics can be anything - but now he has something special for him only.

Make the another of the inactive players the KT leader - put there to prove he has what it takes by the Watch Captain.

For the last chap have him watch "the Lead Player" for signs of corruption and report to the Eposaloatory (or however you spell it). Now he will be questioning the motives of the "Lead Player".

You now have some dynamics to toy with as a GM, 2 players are furtive for sure - the Leader now needs to start making decisions, and the Loudest player may have his decisions questioned - all in all creating banter.

Now that you have created some activity from the players try and split your sessions into different elements of DW. I would personally have a good session introducing Watch Fortress Erioch - the NPCs, maybe have something go on - perhaps a murder of a non adept needs looking into.

Once the players have a grounding in WFE - the NPCs become tangible and the fortress becomes more than a re-supply dump you can move on to written adventures.

Try and have a good mix of kneee deep in gore combat, as well as real interactions with NPCs - and use as many opportunities to fill them in on the background without forcing them to read the books (if they don't want to).

If conversely they are there to pass time until something better comes along, just give them guns and let them kill things - or better yet find other players in your area.

Lots of good tips here.

I agree that handing out XP for roleplaying (cool phrases, actually talking IC with an NPC, dramatic scenes) is a practical way to underline what is important for you as a GM. Has worked fairly okay for me, with similar players.

Try to advance the story by dialogue, rather than combat. Engage the characters (and thus players) personally - provoke them, make them laugh, touch upon their chapter identities - a lord governor could, for instance, claim to once having written an application letter to one player's chapter, seeing himself sort of like an honorary member, which ofc would be ludicrous - but only if you knew how things work in 40k. Weave in 40k facts when describing scenes and paint them in epic colors. Use fluff knowledge as a key ingredient to solving riddles and defusing conflicts (for instance, adressing a high ranking guardsman in the correct way will lead to better results). Delve into character background in prequel scenes, such as playing out the PCs aspirant trial - and let the player himself describe as much as possible of the circumstances. Invite him to take part in setting the scene - you could easily invite him to dress up the room, so to speak: "You enter the bridge of the ancient cruiser. What do you think it would look like?" Make time for scenes with a focus on the life of the Deathwatch - solemn ceremonies in the chapel, servicing and blessing their guns, that kind of stuff. Another trick is to make cool handouts, with vital information and clues.

The point is not to make the players feel stupid if they don't know the right answer, but to inspire them to co-create the gaming world through action and IC dialogue, digging deeper into the fluff for "ammo". I've also used a "coolness bonus" (instead of XP) of +10% for any action the player has described with flair. For instance when a member of the Mechanicum (while playing RT) branched out into a monologue on anointing the runes on a control board with holy oil, while chittering in machine lingo, before taking a difficult Piloting roll. A pointless action, crunchwise, but a great contribution to mood.