One of my players has a DA devestator, he got the death from afar history. Weve decided that since his HB counts as basic and has a shoulder sling he can (if he wants to) fire it single handedly. Every mission he mounts a chain blade on it, question: it doesnt sound feasable to have a storm shield in one hand, and attack with a HB mounted chainblade single handedly. Ideas?

Tunnelhckrat said:

Death from Afar only makes the weapon count as a basic weapon for the purposes of moving and shooting on semi and full auto fire. Meaning you can move your Agility Bonus in meteres, and incurr no penalties (which is normally -10% to your BS test.

This does not make it a basic weapon, and thus the other things that are going on there (chain blade, storm shield, single handed firing, etc.) are not valid based on the RAW.

Charmander said:

Uh?

Where is that written?

I thought Semi-Burst or Full-Auto is a Full-Action? Thus no movement is allowed? The only thing I remember is that Semi-Burst allows you to not gain the +10 bonus but to able to move instead!

But where is written that you can move with basic weapons in addition to Semi-Burst or Full-Auto?

Best regards,

TechVoid.

Pages 239 and 242. And Charmander got it right. You do not, repeat: do not, fire a HB 1-handed unless you want to play a munchkin version of DW that leaves other gamers head-scratching. I understand the PA history can give one that idea but common sense should make one re-think and re-read what is being written there.

Alex

ak-73 said:

Don't feel bad TechVoid, I missed that tiny section the first 100 times I read it, too . Pretty sure this wasn't in DH, not sure if it was in RT or not.

Well, with it counting as basic and every body having true grit, doesnt that mean the rules allow it?

It counts as basic for moving and firing purposes only with that PA history and the DW True Grit talent only halves Critical Damage.

Alex

Im sorry I was confusing 40k True grit with DW recoil suppression. Also, what the hell is RAW?

ak-73 said:

ak-73 said:

I think hes equating it to "True grit" in tabletop, which allows for certain weapons to be treated as having 2 cc weapons.

@Tunnel

This argument has been made before, AK-73 and charmander are right on this, it is treated as basic only for the purpose of firing full/semi auto and performing a half move (with the normal penalty, even though this is normally not possible with heavy weapons). No, you cannot fire it one handed. For the sake of the other players in your game, you and your GM should just retcon that in previous sessions, that never happned .

It does not mean that the gun is now somehow different, and can have modifications it normally cannot have added to it. The gun is not somehow a part of the armour.

RAW = "Additionally, the wearer may count any heavy weapon he wields as a basic weapon for the purposes of moving and firing on semi- or fully-automatic fire."

That "for the purposes of" is the critical part of this rule, and why what I am saying is correct. It is clearly stating that the the "treat as basic" is only for this purpose, not any other (such as possibly firing one handed without penalties, or affixing melee weapon attachments).

And RAW = Rules As Written

Tunnelhckrat said:

By Recoil Supression do you mean the deathwatch suspensor? If so, the trick to the suspensor is that you can fire the weapon on semi- and full-automatic as a half action (as per the auto-stabilized trait) and you always count as braced when firing a heavy weapon (which Astartes already do because they have bulging biceps).

A good rule of thumb is 'have I ever seen this on a 25mm figure?'

I don't think I've seen any spraying a HB with chainblade in one hand with a storm shield in the other...

RAW = Read As Written. The literal interpretation of the rules. Whereas RAI = Read As Intended. In this case RAW and RAI are one and the same: You can't have a chainblade on a HB, nor fire it one handed or use it in melee one handed. Chalk it down to an error and pretend it didn't happen.

Siranui said:

It definitely makes me want to make a conversion model for the fun of it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to charge that guy. Table top or RP.

Also on another note on the build, you can't throw a melee attachment on a heavy bolter as per the rules, just basic weapons.

BrotherHostower said:

Note that the confusion was due to the rule partly saying that heavy weapons can be treated as basic weapons. Its understandable that that one mistake would lead to melee attachments and one handed usage.

Once again the key phrase is that its "treated as basic for the purpose of moving and firing", not simply "treated as basic"

Also, this rule has a very cool interaction with suspensors (allowing a full move and firing full auto at -20, or a half move and firing full auto at +20), but once again, the weakness lies in the inability to carry a melee weapon (and the implied devastator using this weapon having a poor agility, hence why the dipole mag-locks are essential).

Just a correction so people don't make mistakes:

pg. 239: The penalty for moving and firing a basic weapon on full-auto is -10%