I know what a Power Sword is and what it can do, but the Power Axe is a relatively new item to me. The rulebook merely says it does damage comparable to a Power Sword and that it's a somewhat cumbersome weapon, but outside of that the really useful info on it is scant. I don't even know what it basically looks like... whether it's a one-handed weapon, a two-handed weapon or if it's balanced for both like a hand-and-a-half sword.

A little further useful info regarding this weapon would be greatly welcomed. I'm trying to equip a Space Marine for his first mission and I'm in a bind as to what close combat weapon to start him off with... he's an Assault Marine, you see. So feed me the info and keep it coming... put a big smile on my face!

Yeah, like that.

CrimsonFistMarine001 said:

AFAIK they look like typical fantasy axes, and are one handed. Ones that use two hands usually have a 2d10 weapon profile rather than 1d10.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440275a&prodId=prod1060045

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1400013&prodId=prod1060205

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1060062&rootCatGameStyle =

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod380007a&rootCatGameStyle =

This is what I was looking for, more or less. Thanks, Charmander.

Anybody else have something to contribute here?

CrimsonFistMarine001 said:

Ah, got to help out a fellow Crimson Fist brother (after all there aren't many of us anymore after Rynn's World Incident ):

warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Power_Weapons (general power weapon info)

grognard.booru.org/index.php (picture)

As you can see it's one-handed. All melee weapons are unless otherwise noted.

Alex

CrimsonFistMarine001 said:

Mechanically speaking, the axes typically are classified as Unbalanced (-10 to WS to Parry), whereas the swords are Balanced (+10 WS to Parry).

-=Brother Praetus=-

Power Axes can be used both single and double handedly. When they bothered putting detailing differences between power weapons in 40k (2nd ed) you could choose single handed (to allow you to use another weapon) or double handed (could only use the power axe, but hit harder). Single handed the axe was slightly inferior to the power sword (as well as not being able to parry), but two handed it had higher strength.

And if you go back to 1st edition it was two handed only, but then it was essentially a vibro-weapon rather than the power field weapon it is now.

As far as 40k RPG is concerned I believe they just treat it like a single handed weapon.

On that not, is the Thunderhammer 1-H or 2-H and does it double strength bonus?

Hey, correct me if I'm wrong... on page 38 of the Core Rulebook, is that a Power Axe that the pictured Black Templar wields in his right hand? If it is, then I initially thought it to be merely a normal unpowered weapon. At any rate, this particular one looks like it can be used with one or two hands... the handle's gripping surface looks big enough for that.

"There aren't many of us [Crimson Fists] left after that Rynn's World incident..."

Please don't remind me. The Rynn's World invasion was just the latest in a series of not-so-good scenarios that swiftly turned downright bad for the Chapter.

An earlier rumble with the greenskins on Ixion, one of the watch-station worlds at the fringes of the Loki Sector, was still fresh in my mind at the time. The 7th Company was countering what was thought to be an attempt by the Orks to gain a toehold in the sector. We had inflicted significant casualties against them in several small-scale engagements, but were as yet unable to gain a decisive victory over the foe. That changed when the Adeptus Sororitas swept into the system... for what purpose, we didn't yet know. Their firepower was welcome aid, however. Between the Sisters and the 7th Company, the Orks' future on Ixion was counted in hours.

Then the Sisters turned right around and tried slapping us with a heresy charge. A brief scuffle which never should have happened ensued. A less-than-good day went due south for us.

News of the dire situation on Rynn's World reached us shortly after we finished picking up the pieces on Ixion. We realized then that Ixion was a feint, one of several that distracted the Chapter from the true objective of Snagrod's Waaaagh! Were the Orks getting smarter?

We didn't know the answer to our own question, but one thing was certain. We had to get to Rynn's World... and fast!

Thunderhammers are 1H because in the other hand usually goes the Storm Shield. There isn't any rule for 1.5H weapons so you got to House Rule that.

As for the CF, I want to know if that missile that struck the Arx Tyrannus was malfunctioning or if there was sabotage. Because if Temple Assassins as rumoured were responsible for this the High Lords better start looking for new Assassin recruits....

Alex

ak-73 said:

I had been wondering about "that missile" as well... that it should go awry and hit where and when it did is a bit more than I would dismiss as mere chance. It burns me that there may be more duplicity in the Imperium's ranks than we previously thought, but a Chapter does what it must when hostile forces we thought were our allies would seek to bring us down with a stab in the back.

LOL, "We will be back."

Alex

As AK mentioned, power axes (also including non powered or chain ones) and thunderhammers are 1 handed for purposes of the game. And as Brother Praetus mentioned they are usually Unbalanced. Most GW miniatures show those axes as being hand and a half type weapons. The super human strength of a space marine could wield the weapon 1 handed with no difficulty. For modeling purposes its just aesthetics.

Stat line wise, axes usually do 1-2 more points damage when compared to their counterpart bladed weapons. (Sword to Axe, Chainsword to Chainaxe, etc.)

As for using it 2 handed you could, but you would have to house rule it, and adding 2 damage to the overall damage wouldn't be to bad. Again, it would have to be a house rule since there are no specific rules for doing so. You may want to alter the Unbalanced trait when doing so, but really its up to you as a GM as to how you play it.

Personally, I always preferred the look of an axe of the sword. Maybe that is the table top chaos player in me sneaking out, but axes always looked more intimidating.

Now as for that missile that struck the Arx Tyrannus, I just figured it was some unknown orky-tek that caused that to happen. The novel (although not one of Black Libraries best) is all I have to go by. Of course if you really want to go back to old school days, you can look at the original Rogue Trader book where the imperium would work with orks.

Google says there were rumours in the old Assassins Codex regarding their involvement. And I always trust the Google.

Alex

I house-rule axes (when not on the lists) to have +2 damage compared to swords and Unbalanced instead of Balanced.

I also have a house-rule that states that when fighting two-handed with a one-handed weapon the following apply:

1. Unbalanced weapons loose that trait
2. Balanced weapons gain +1 to damage
3. Unwieldy weapons loose that trait and gain Unbalanced. But beware! If you fight with a Thunderhammer two-handed (without a Storm Shield) you are as affected by the concussing effect as your opponent!

@Santiago - I gave the Thunderhammer the same "double the SB" trait as the Power Glove. I felt it was ridiculous without it.

The Inquisitor's Handbook has a Bastard Sword, which has 1 damage and 1 pen over a normal sword. No real rule for wielding it one ot two handed, just saying that stronger people wield it one handed and others wield it two handed. Suggests that maybe wielding single handed weapons in two hands should give +1 Damage and +1 Pen. Seems a bit... meh though.

Blatifagus said:

Not a bad approach. As for +1 damage being a bit 'meh', I'd perhaps recommend giving a +5% parry modifier rather than a damage bonus. The extra hand offers more control, not more power.

Siranui said:

I suggest a hefty damage bonus on all-out attacks though. Might also make Furious Assault more attractive.

Alex

Siranui said:

I was thinking that the hammer's and axe's handel lend itself well to widely spaced hands andthus increased control of the weapon, where as the sword's hilt doesn't improve the balance of the sword if wielded in two hands. You'd be able to put more force into the blow with a two-handed grip on a sword though. Admittedly that's true with a topp-heavy hammer or axe as well, but that increase (the "meh" +1) is already kind of included in the +2 i give axes to begin with. They hit with more force but are harder to wield as per their design.

(I beg your pardon if my reasoning is gramatically flawed and hard to follow. English is not my native language)

If a Space Marine possessed exceptional strength and agility, he probably wouldn't have to worry about penalties or about Unbalanced weapons... am I right?

CrimsonFistMarine001 said:

There is no rule that says that, at least that I'm aware of.

I would say physics wise it's still difficult to parry with an unbalanced weapon, regardless of how strong or agile you are. Unbalanced doesn't neccesarily translate into 'harder to wield' it reads "difficult to ready after an attack." Axes aren't exactly difficult to swing at someone, but they're not especially easy to parry with because of the way in which you attack someone. You swing an axe full force and use your body in the swing, and to suddenly disengage that blow to parry would be quite difficult. The stronger you are, the more force behind your swing, making is just as hard to stop swinging to parry. Realistically I'd think it would be harder to feint with an axe or unbalanced weapon as well, but that's beside the point.

Physics aside, the game mechanics are there typically to offset a bonus of the weapon (usually increased damage). Removing the penalty without sacrificing something else (such as in Blatifagus' house rule, you lose the ability to use your offhand because you're using both hands on a one handed weapon) doesn't sit right with me.

Some worthy food for thought. Thanks again, Charmander.

CrimsonFistMarine001 said:

Err. No. The rules don't state exceptions for high str/agi. It's not a matter of strength, it's a matter of suitability. Some weapons are just lousy at parrying, and some aren't.

As regards spacing on the hilt being the determining factor of 'power v control'; it's still very much a control thing. Two hands give a much more precise control of the blade, aid recovery and overall swiftness of action. It's really not a strength thing so much as an overall enhancement of technique. I initially suggested a parry modifier due to factors of control and extra resistance to beats and binds. I'd more likely consider a straight +WS bonus (for both attack and defence) over damage. Alternatively a bonus to PEN would also be reasonable, as the weapon can be better thrust/aimed at perceived weak points in protective armour.