Hello all.

First of all, this maybe the wrong place for a (set of) question(s) like this, but...
(And please Fantasy Flight, don't take this the wrong way - I generally like your stuff)

What do you think of these things (included in the basic scenario settings):

1. A female inquisitor with high heels, and something looking like a small factory carried on her back?

2. The name: "Inquisitor Quist"?

I am not trying to trash the installment foundation in DW, but this is what I will do to these things (or try to do):

1. The female inquisitor goes out the window - swisch - and in comes a much darker/harder atmosphere that I collectively
call "The Door". To me, inquisitors (atleast in a high ranking position able to give DW space marines layouts/orders
for missions) are people enveloped in mystery and an unreachable position to which "mere DW marines" from the beginning
will have a hard time meeting with, in person.

Again, for me, the medieval background material for inquisitors are much more suitable. Men in cloaks, like monks, hard-to-
see faces and dark hard voices hidden behind said cloaks. I also put these monk-like inquisitors behind a big sturdy door,
chiseled with all the right insignia of the Deatwatch. The front of the door look like the front of the "Deathwatch Collector's
Edition" box, with the laser-eyed skull. Underneath this skull there are a door slit which only opens when Battle Brothers
aimed for a mission are "sent to the Door". When they (the marines) arrive, they usually will be let standing at the door for
quite some time. Then suddenly the little red laser-dot on the insignia skull will begin to scan the group with a red covering
light, from heads to toes. After that: silence. More waiting. Then the little slit opens, revealing a darkened face behind a hood.

A dark, lingering voice starts to talk to the Battle Brothers about the facts and figures of the mission ahead. Also what is
expected as a result of the Kill Team from the mission. What should and should not happen and what is known or not.
Then the slit shut closed and the marines are supposed to head back to their barracks and start preparing for the mission.

2. Inquisitor Quist sounds like a sound joke to me. "Quizzy Quisty"... No. Again, instead I want more of the medieval feeling here:
Some of the Spanish Grand Inquisitors (from Wikipedia):

Tomás de Torquemada, prior of Santa Cruz 1483–1498
Diego de Deza Tavera, prior of Santo Domingo 1499–1506
Diego Ramírez de Guzmán, bishop of Catania, bishop of Lugo 1506–1507
Francisco Jiménez de Cisneros, cardinal archbishop of Toledo 1507–1517
Juan Enguera, bishop of Vich, bishop of Lleida, Tortosa 1507–1513
Luis Mercader Escolano, bishop of Tortosa 1513–1516
Adrian of Utrecht, Cardinal priest of Ss. Giovanni e Paolo, Bishop of Tortosa 1516–1522
Alonso Manrique de Lara, archbishop of Seville 1523–1538
Juan Pardo de Tavera, archbishop of Toledo 1539–1545
García de Loisa, archbishop of Seville 1546
Fernando de Valdés y Salas 1547–1566
Diego de Espinosa, bishop of Sigüenza, bishop of Cuenca 1566–1572
Pedro Ponce de León, bishop of Ciudad Rodrigo, bishop of Plasencia 1572
Gaspar de Quiroga y Vela, archbishop of Toledo 1573–1594

One of these, or someone like these ones, will do. I know a lot of these sound very "latino".
Personally, I like Mercader. But I want to hear your views on this...

Personally, if there is ONE thing in all of gamingdom that I could cause people to spontaneously combust over, it's combat heels. Now, I can barely live with chainmail bikinis and midriffs of DOOOM but at least men often run around without shirts on too, so that can be somewhat excused.

But there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to see a female wearing highheels to a gun fight. It looks so ridiculous that I'm at a loss for words. There should be a rule in every game system - wear highheels and on a 1+ on a d6 you immediately break your ankles when ever you attempt to anything except pose in a provocative fashion.

If a piece of fantasy/scifi art has highheels in it, then it is junk. I don't care how good the art is, putting highheels on a sister of battle, female barbarian or just an FBI agent with a pistol (SCULLY!!!!) makes it complete junk in my eyes.

So yes, trash the highheels wearing inquisitor. Unless she's at a party looking to score.

As for the names, use any names you want. Being too latino isn't important. If they fit then they fit.

Hellebore

Snips mine for brevity

dracopticon said:

To me, Inquisitors come in all colors, stripes, personalities, and motivations. From what little I've read of the novels, the fluff depicts them in a variety of different ways. To me, a sister of battle in high heels would seem daft, but an inquisitor I don't have a problem with. People will use everything they can to get and hold onto positions of power and authority, and for women that can often mean things like revealing closthing and high heels. That sister spends much of her time fighting, training, or praying, whereas the inquisitor is off and about dealing with people.

As for the name, I agree that you should use whatever names you see fit to fit the feel you want for that inquisitor. The names you have are definitely interesting though.

As for Inquisitors being unreachable to 'mere DW marines', I tend to disagree based on what I've read. If the DW owns Erioch and determines it's own destiny as is the way of the Astartes, the Inquisiton gets to ask for help, not demand it, right? From what I've seen in DW, they get to decide where they deploy. Otherwise I'd suspect there would be more than one inquisitor in the chamber of vigilance. That said, if you want the Inquisition/Inquisitors to be mysterious and/or in charge, by all means do so.

Hellebore said:

The answer to that is: force fields. Pick a strong force field, never attempt to dodge, instead relying on the power of your force field and any chick can go to a firefight in high heels.

Alex

To me, women in RPG's are never 'chicks', as in real life.

So, having a female inquisitor could happen, but it would be as another hooded member of the
ones I pictured. And I greatly agree with Hellebore. But, that's my take on it. Other views are just
as viable.

dracopticon said:

I don't measure respect for females by whether someone occasionally refers to girls as chicks or not. It's not that simple. So, yeah, I stand by what I said and the way I said it.

Alex

Well said. And now I have a little more respect for your language concerning
"members of the opposite camp" as Frank Zappa would've put it.

dracopticon said:

Disclaimer: I'm honestly not flaming you, just trying to get a better feel for where you're coming from, which is notoriously hard to do over the internet.

Do you view the portrayal of women in heels and combat bikinis as impractical or offensive?

I no way do I feel your question is flaming. It's a good question.
Here's my answer:

To me, women wearing nothing but incomprehensible and out-of-context
attire, is humongously impractical. Just look at the female soldiers in the
film "Aliens" by James Cameron. They are practical warriors and thusly
wear combat fatigues or full combat dress. Nothing else.

So, a female inquisitor should look the part that she is. Inquisitors are
responsible for so much important work for the Imperium of Man, that
dressing up and being womanly is just in the way of carrying out said
work. All the male members wear practical outfits and carry paraphernalia
useable when they're doing what the they're doing. Why should the women
of the Inquisition be any different?

dracopticon said:

Hrm, I think some of the male outfits are equally strange in style, though less revealing

I agree to a certain extent, but then again the women portrayed in Aliens were going into combat. There was no inquisition going on, this was dropping into a colony that had been cut off and they were expecting hostile alien contact. Vasquez was a heavy gunner, she was not there to do anything but blow the hell out of aliens. They were also soldiers, and were given uniforms that they were required to wear. If this was a guard regiment, I'd be in total agreement here.

Nothing says an Inquisitor can't don combat armor when they're about to go kick in a door and put some bolt rounds through a heretic or xenos, either. But if they're going to be speaking to people, want to catch them off guard and lure questions out with a mixture of fear and desire, heels and a low cut shirt seem to be excellent tools for the job. Many, many women use their physical appearance and attire as a tool. Male physical appearance is treated differently, and a man in a bananna hammock isn't going to get the same response as a woman in a revealing outfit by any stretch. A man trying to elicit some sort of powerful response will likely wear bulky armor, ornaments, and puff his chest up to seem like he's in charge.

At the same time, I'd not be surprised to see inquisitors dressing down to look less threatening, so as to disarm their prey- to me I think an Inquisitor would wear whatever they would think will aid them in getting the job done. Some women would proabaly be in nothing but practical clothing, but others would chose a different tactic. The inquisition is not of one mind.

High heels would be the first thing to go in any combat scenario. Most women can't even wear them at parties for more than a few hours before taking them off, so the idea that they'd leave them on in combat is preposterous.

As I said in my original post, if they're at a party looking to score then sure, high heels makes sense. However, if they don't have their combat gear on hand in case things go pear shaped, they will have to fight at the party in heels - which should either halve their Agility or require them go bare foot. Heels are only there to augment height and buttock/leg aesthetics, they interfer in all other aspects of movement and are uncomfortable for extended periods of time.

There should be no excuse for heels on female warriors actually deliberately going into combat, quite apart from how difficult it would be to walk over anything other than an even surface. The classic gantry chase across the reactor stacks will result in shattered ankles as she gets the heel caught in the grill.

Midriffs are stupid, chainmail bikinis are stupid, but there are men wearing (or not wearing) just as stupid clothing. The only thing they'd do is reduce armour, so if a woman wants to go into battle with 0 armour on the torso then be my guest.

But heels are just impractical, debilitating and downright dangerous in anything other than a relaxed party atmosphere.

The movie RED that recently came out lampshaded this fact with Helen Mirren's character. She leaves the party in her heels and John Malcovich's character brings her combat boots as they start their operation.

Hellebore

Hellebore said:

Other than the force field suggestion by AK (which I find hilarious, mind you), no one is suggesting that Inquisitors go charging across a battlefield in heels, and no one has argued that a midriff bearing shirt would be an effective combat loadout. I'm just saying that not all Inquisitors are heading into combat all the time, least of all those surrounded by an army of Deathwatch Marines. Let the Order Militant handle the soldiering, the Inquisitor handle the investigation. If she needs to, she can put on boots or kick her shoes off.

And FWIW, I've seen plenty of women in heels in far less relaxed atmospheres than a party and none of them shattered an ankle or tore a tendond. They weren't dodging gunfire, sure, but it was far more tense than a fancy dress party.

In a world where space travel is done by 3-eyed mutants who guide a ship through an alternate dimension using a soul-fed light as their beacon...I'm not too worried about the "realism" of things like high heels, crazy outfits, etc.

In my opinion, the general feel of the 40k universe is what is most important. And for me, the John Blanche imagery has always been spot-on in my mind. So yes, the female inquisitor my Kill-Team interfaced with did have thigh-high metal boots with over-the-top heels. The female assassin that my Dark Heresy group encountered (high-ranking Acolyte of the Inquisitor they serve) also had crazy high heels. Not because it makes any degree of sense, but purely because it "looks cool". I mean, 40k is all about what "looks cool". Space Marine shoulder pads make no sense at all, but they are awesome. Why? Because they follow the Rule of Cool. Metal high heels? Rule of Cool. Weapons far too large to be actually used by normal-strength people? Rule of Cool.

As mentioned though, Inquisitors come in all different manners. So a very militaristic female is just as fitting as your typical crazy-outfit one to me.

I'd personally stay away from such things for reasons of both 'realism' and outright sexism.

My female Inquisitors will be in sensible shoes!

kenshin138 said:

Hey, if Michigan lets her female space marines wear lipstick in battle, I have no problem with high heels "chicks" either. Give the NPC Unnatural Agility and kick anyone who protests against the lack of realism in the face. ;-)

Plus as I have said before in the old debate about FSM: I don't share a number of people's idea of what sexism constitutes. Sexism is an issue where a number of people are quick to indict other people inquisition-style (men, btw, do that because they seek to play "Robin Hood").

Here:

wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Catachan_Jungle_Fighters.jpg

Sexism!

Alex

The age old ramble on sexism hadn't even begun to develop in my brain, when I
first wrote this thread. I'm a man who absolutely love women in high heels - in real life.

I actually agree to almost all of your different explanations of style of thought.

Just one thing (and yes the Rule of Cool is really... cool, but):
if all the male inquisitors wear only practical equipment or tools for their assignments, why shouldn't the female do the same?

And I for one, don't think that the inquisitorial superiors actually look on their female colleagues with favour, if they use charming
tactics against the ones they investigate. It's just so out of the overall theme of 40K. Atleast for me.

I think I need to explain my views on this a little further:

To me, the 40K setting is like "Soviet Russia in Future Space with a Twist".

What I mean is, that the one persevering feeling I get from reading novels
and gaming books about the 40K setting, is: paranoia. Everyone can report
everyone else (within their sphere of control) if they suspect the other of
being corrupt or generally behaving "anti-imperial" in any way.

This is somewhat comparable to Gulag-era Russia. So, when operating as
a (male or female) inquisitor who are at the forefront of this paranoia-thinking
life style, going about charming people really falls out of style with this setting.

Siranui said:

But isn't the machoism of the overly large muscled figures of men in 40k sexism as well (see Alex's Catachan post)? "Application of sterotypes of masculinity"? We see this everywhere, and in the over the top world of 40k it just seems to fit. Sexism doesn't bother me until people are actually being hurt by it.

dracopticon said:

The guys wear things that 'look cool' and speak to the occult and masculine power. Just how many tassles, gold chains, pocket watches, and belts does an Inquisitor need? How many buckles are needed on your arms? Why are your shoulder pads so big? What's with the giant feathers on poles sticking out of your back (at least I think he's a dude). Why does your coat only have patches of chainmail n it, like you ran out of wool and only had steel rings to mend it?

And maybe inquisitors don't look 'kindly' to women who seduce information out of men, like often happens in modern society. But the 40k figures show that not all of them are in battle dress, though not all of them are wearing push up bras and mini skirts either. I don't think a inquisitor that asks a question in a polite manner breaks with the 'overall theme' of 40k at all, at least from what I've read. And women showing their 'assets' aren't necesarily trying to charm either- it's just one of many ways to use your apeparance as a tool.

Argument aside, if you are trying to create a paranoid feeling of cloistered secretive inquisitors, then corsets and thigh highs may not fit.

Yea I think the sexism thing isn't a big deal really. As example, my Dark Heresy group is 1 male and 3 females. None of them have any issue with the 40k imagery, even things like "male only Space Marines" and Blanche-esque crazy high heels.

Regarding the first topic, I vehemently disagree - the steel door may be fitting for acolytes, but Deathwatch Marines are the champions of humanity, quite easily the equal of any inquisitor. The Inquisition requests when it comes to Space Marines, it does not demand, nor does any intelligent Inquisitor leave Marines waiting for any longer than absolutely necessary. The Inquisition and the Astartes have enough conflicts going on with each other without needing to screw up things on purpose.

As for the sexism topic... you consider anyone's outfit practical? Besides perhaps a few guardsmen, I haven't seen such a thing as a practical outfit in 40k.

Yes, yes just about everything in this setting is inconsistent with practicality.

And no, the Inquisition can probably not "order" the DW marines around.

But having said that, including a little extra push from higher ranks or
combined rank and/or authority from both Ordo Xenos and the Inquisition
can't hurt to give the setting a some more spice. To me DW marines just
don't start doubting the orders they get, and therefore not the ones giving
them.

It's the Watch Captain that gives the orders, I imagine, but in my version
of this game, the Inquisition hold the Door to the inner parts of Erioch
Watch Fortress (read: Omega Vault).But the earlier described Door in my
version is not the great bastion of a door that leads into the Vault itself.
That is behind the Door the marines are sent to when receiving orders.

If the marine (players) always find themselves possible to second-guess
what their superiors can or can't do or outright question the authority of
such as inquisitors and their ilk, it would invite chaos IMHO.

I'll not have it as a GM.

Fair enough, though based on RAW the notion that the Deathwatch is simply the military arm of the Ordo Xenos is partially dispelled. The Watch Fortress is the Marine's house and they essentially rent out a tower to the visiting Inquisitor- the guest member of the Chamber of Vigilance. According the the description given in the book, the Watch Commanders tell the Marines what to do, and decide whether or not to accept missions or deny them. They're partners with the Inquisition though, and actively work with them. An Inquisitor is listed as one that could be the Mission Authority, and as such I'd imagine the Watch Captain/Commander would tell the Marines "Inquisitor so-and-so is in charge of this mission, follow their orders as you would mine."

In The Emperor Protects, the second mission is one where the players accompany an Inquisitor (Quist), right? It's pretty clear in the description she is asking the Marines for their assistance. This is directly in contrast to the first mission, where the watch commander informs the KT he's accepted the mission and the KT is the one that's being deployed. In some cases (and the way some people are running their campaigns) their KTs are given great authority to pick and choose their own missions.

All said in done, your game, your rules, and I can see your goal of including more mystery by keeping facts and information from your players. I tend to figure they're ascended level characters, not starting acolytes. They're an elite military force, and in order to make their characters interesting it seems to me they should be given a brain and some free will to go with their uber muscles and giant guns.

Charmander said:

Personally I stick more to the DW canon version also but I always like hearing about creative re-interpretations. In this case the Inquisition would be just even more grimdark. I find it an interesting read.

Alex

ak-73 said:

Hrm, probably came across wrong- definitely an interesting read and definitely more grimdark, I guess where I keep getting hung up is the concept that I'd be playing a character starting with 13/14k xp, at the same level as an ascended character, and have little to no control over my own destiny. The flavor of the terrible regime is not bad.

@dracopticon: Sorry if I came across as too much of a party pooper