Hello,

I am very new to GM'ing and have a slight dilemma.

I, like probably like most of you other GMs, have one of those overzealous "red mage" players that can't seem to understand that despite what the rulebook says, it's up to the discretion of the GM to allow it or not. For example, his current argument is that the rulebook states that you can attach a grenade launcher to "any" weapon, therefore he wants to attach a grenade launcher to his combat knife. I'm half-tempted to let him do it, and when he uses it in close proximity allow him to blow his dumb self to bits in the process.

My REAL problem is this:

In an attempt to derail some of the more "unethical" (for lack of a better word) specialty and weapon combinations (ie. A librarian who rarely uses psychic powers, but rolls around with missile launchers and other heavy weapons), I was looking to enforce the Weapons Training (xxxxx) rules, so they would have to get the training for certain weapons before they had access to the more powerful weapons. But as I go along, I noticed the Astartes Weapons Training gives them the ability to use EVERYTHING except exotics. Is there any reason why both would be in the book? It doesn't make any sense to me. In that case, -IF- I was dumb enough to allow it, I'd have 5 jet-packing, assault cannon weilding librarians raining lead and psychic hell from the safety of the skies.

Fortunately, it hasn't gotten to that point yet, but my players are THAT imaginative. As their characters grow in experience and renown, I foresee the idiocy level rising in the future.

Remember that they'd have to buy the Pilot (Personal) skill before being able to use jetpacks. Also, you can't use assault cannons in power armour, it's a Terminator-only piece of kit.

I have a sinking feeling that Deathwatch might not be for those players, if they're going to blatently try to break it. Seriously, adding a grenade launcher to a combat knife? Just no. If they don't like being moderated in their obviously munchkin behaviour, I'd just tell that player to find another group.

Senthysis said:

You have complete control over this by assigning as much or little requisition points as you want to. Period. If you think your players will come up with shenanigans, assign less req. In fact the req rules seem to be somewhat broken (you can quote me on that) and I would advise that you reverse engineer the req points for a mission by designing a desired loadout for your players yourself.

Not enough req points = no flying assault cannons. Besides heavy weapons might make navigating in flight slower and more difficult and they need the Pilot(Personal) skill anyway.

As for the combat knife with grenade launcher, let the Watch Captain refuse that as unfitting gear for a member of the noble Deathwatch. As proper punishment (it's a stern regime) he'll determine the combat loadout for the player for the next 2 missions.

Alex

Auxilary Grenade Launcher, page 152, implies VERY heavily it is only attached to basic ranged weapons. "most commonly mounted above or below the barrel of a basic weapon...if attached to another weapon, the user much choose which one to FIRE" It doesn't say explicitly that it can't be attached to another weapon, but the language is pretty clear to me. I don't see anywhere that it says 'any weapon,' though. As or him blowing himself to bits...he probably won't given the RAW. The damage dealt by many of the grenades will barely scratch an astartes. Just overrule him.

The reason both sets of weapon talents are in the book is as a carry over from other lines and because you as a GM might be making NPCs out of this book. Based on the current fluff, 'normal' marines that haven't yet reached the tactical branch may be lacking certain weapon proficiencies.

I'm sorry your players are munchkins, I would take AK's advice and simply tell them no from the outset, then enforce it via the Watch Commander/Captain. Don't let them push you around, they're sure going to try, just beat them with the watch captain stick if you have to.

Also, if they're rules lawyers and want to see the GM's authority written in the book, see page 8: "To adjudicate these rules, each game has a [GM]." And 264: "The GM helps to decide when and where these rules are used and also how they are interpreted, making sure that the game runs as smoothly as possible." And "Knowing the rules is also important for the GM as he is required to make judgment and adjudications on the actions of the characters."

Good luck.

Charmander said:

Not quite. They can also be mounted directly onto Terminator Armour, as noted at the end of the weapon's entry - this is a nod to the old Auto-Launcher wargear card from the early 90s Codex Ultramarines, which allowed a version of the 3-barrelled grenade launchers (back when they fired frag or blind grenades) normally seen on Rhinos to be mounted on the armour of a Terminator-armoured character.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Ah, I miss those days, back when a dozer blade increase the front armor of your tank, and when a regenerating 10 wound carnifex was all that was left on the table chasing down tanks and flipping them.

I thought it was more of a nod towards the Terminator Captains in Space Hulk having a 5-shot GL on their power fist.

Back to the OP: Just say 'no'. My personal take is generally 'if I've never seen it on a model, it's not happening'. If you get 'silly' requests, just put a line through them and don't rebate the points. You also might want to consider limiting the number of heavy weapons that the characters take.

I haven't personally encountered this behaviour in my players (yet... in this game), since most of them are 40k aficionadi, but as staded in this and other threads throughout the forum, the Astartes wargear are sacred ! The Astartes (and not to mention the Quartermasters) wont treat their equipment as mere tools. They are holy relics handed down through the millenia to safeguard the human race from the horrors of the galaxy and beyond. You wont see any moslem remove the Black Stone from Kaaba just because it would be more accessible and convenient would you? It's simply not done since it would be a blasfemy. Same thing with wargear. There are things you can do according to tradition and procedures and there are things you could but wont since it's simply wrong to do it.

The requisition rules are just a RP-mechanic to let players customise their characters a bit. How it (probably) works "for real" is that the Marines get briefed on the mission then handed their gear. No choices. No bickering. No " I think I'll go with twin stormbolters with chainsword attachments, motion predictors and auxiliary grenade launchers on this mission. Throw in a jump pack as well. Thanks. " Nope. They just take what they're given, say a prayer to the Emperor and make the best of what they got.

With Signature wargear it's a different story. That (single) piece of equipment is the marine's own and he can do what ever he want with it (within reason, se above) to personalise it. And he will treat it as an intimate friend and maybe even the only lover he'll ever know.

Eww. TMI!

Blatifagus said:

But isn't part of the cool factor of the DW that the players and characters get to decide how to take an objectve on their own rather than having them told/ordered to by the missino authority? I agree it's a codified RP mechanic, but I've always viewed it as the characters know how difficult a given mission is expected to be, they know the objectives, etc. and thus chose their wargear as appropriate. No one forces them to take two melta bombs, the team chooses to take it as a way to breach the enemy hull.

And yeah, as Siranui said, ewww.

Charmander said:

Normally Blatifagus would be right. However, the DW Marines are supposed to be veterans or otherwise highly qualified already. I think they are granted much more independence than chapter marines. As such I suppose that they are allowed to choose their own loadout unless they demonstrate repeat inability to do so reasonably at which the good ol' Watch Captain is going to take over.

Alex

ak-73 said:

Yes I play it just as you say. Deathwatch is a special breed of Marines. The team goes through the planning and discuss the equipment they might need to succeed. The planning phase is half the mission after all

But as you say there Alex: repeat "offenders" would get the evil-eye from the Commander.

Bearing in mind that the launcher itself would be much longer than the blade, I'd rule that not only is the combat blade unusable, but the wielder takes a large negative to fire the launcher, and the effective range is halved. There isn't much kick to a launcher when attached to a rifle (basic) weapon, but it would be noticeably pronounced as to be useless on a much smaller single hand weapon.