Do you consider that a character can block or parry any attacks ? What if he's attacked by a giant or even worse by a shaggoth ? He could possibly dodge but even if he succeeds to block or parry, he would take some damage points wouldn't he ? Has someone made a house rule about it ?

Hauer Glaeken said:

I think that is easily reflected in the stats of the giant. With enough strenght and damage, even 3 challenge dice won't make it miss every time. And if just one success gets through the massive strenght and damage of the huge weapon (a gian club - a tree for instance - deal much more damage than a regular sized club) would hurt a lot. I dislike not giving the players options to decide what happenends and if someone blows all defence in one round he WILL be vulnerable the next.

Remember that a good parry is not directly stopping/blocking a blow, but instead diverting the blow downwards/upwards, or in any way away from you.

A good block is the same. If you just hold your shield passive, and let the opponent hit it, then it's effect is what the shield stats describe, if you actively block (reactive), then it's an attempt to divert the blow away, to the sides or whatever, rather than just stopping it.

If the blow is powerfull enough, then you go with the blow and move your body at the same time, using the force of the blow to propel your body away.

If you're fast and skillfull enough, then you can stand infront of a train, and parry it, by using the force to move your body away. I don't think anyones been brave enough to test that though...

So I think it works very well. This problem was why 1st/2nd edition had big monsters have several attacks, because it was easy to parry/block/dodge a dragons attack. Thus it needed several attacks, so you couldn't counter them all. In 3rd edition a dragon has so many dice, and can throw in extra dice if needed, so it's hard to stop, and when it hits it rips you apart.

Thanks for the answers. Well, the fact that a giant does only little more damage than a black orc for instance annoys me a little. :-) May be, the soak value of the armour/shield + toughness can be divided by 2 if you are hit by a creature as large as a big tree ?

The giant should hit for more critical wounds to, which really is the nasty part of injuries.

Yes, I think that's a good idea. You can't try to stop a train without being reduced to pulp. ^ ^ I hope that Signs of War will cover such questions and propose more optional rules about combat.

I think you are using too literaly the stat lines you read in the book.

A Black Orc is an Elite-sort of Orc, equiped with a 2 hander weapon, thus his St 6 and Damage 7. Tough guy (like a Wargor/Troll)

A Troll (same difficulty as a Black Orc) & Giant (more dangerous than a Black Orc) are both stronger but unarmed (and un-armored) from the basic stat lines. Drop them a 2 hander club style weapon, the Troll could have a Damage 7 one, the Giant a Damage 8 one (size matter sometimes )

The Giant will do more damage, always. Only a little if he uses his fists, which is quite normal vs the big 2 handed axe of the Orc

Cwell2101 said:

You made an interisting point. I think It's a matter of perspective. In Agone, a french RPG, the giant can demolish the wall of a castle under siege and can strike several opponents with one blow. And they surely can do the same thing in Warhammer. That's for this reason that they don't do enough damages against one human (or dwarf or Elf) imho. A Black Orc can't top the rampage that a creature who is towering at 30 feet may cause in melee combat. Same thing for all the monstruous creatures by the way (Shaggoth, Dragon, etc...).

Hauer Glaeken said:

The damage listed is for an unarmed giant If it attacks using a tree trunk you could easily add 8 to the damage number. Also the Monsters are average... they can meet a stronger giant.

Yes. :-) I think that I will give "The thunderous blow" to every creature which is at least as large as an ogre. And that they can make a sweeping blow that can harm (strength) opponents at the same time (for half damage).

Hauer Glaeken said:

You probably should not see Giants as 30 feet tall (maybe 12 to 15', Trolls being 8 to 11', we know Wargor are about 8', Gor are 7', Ungor are 6' from the ToA description)

Giants actually have a melee action (as do Trolls) that reach up to Close range when using a melee weapon to emphasize their size and reach (Devastating Swing). You can easily give them a weapon that does 8 & 9 damage. The power increase of 1 in damage in not as linear as it may appear, because the Soak Value is usually fixed (To is 3, common armor is 2/3). They will "one shoot" most NPCs quite often.

I think that I will adopt this rule and I will mix it with the thunderous blow card. Thanks for your answers anyway. :-)

Keep in mind that a block/dodge/parry merely provides an additional misfortune die (or challenge for improved versions) to the attacker's pool, rather than being an independant roll by the defender (like with the WH40k RPG and previous WFRP versions), and oftentimes will not allow the defender to completely avoid the blow. It very well *could*, however, reduce the effects/soften the blow. Remember the dice pool, and interpreting the dice. When rolling for the Giant, if a misfortune die comes up with a challenge symbol or even a bane, then narratively the parry softened the blow, even if it there were still enough successes rolled to get a hit. As stated, big creatures like a Giant are unlikely to be prevented from hitting/doing no damage by a single parry/block purely because of all the dice rolled. So, you don't really need to worry about this, as the effects are involved correctly anyway. Use narrative interpretation of the results, and see if a single misfortune die caused a challenge/bane that then dropped the number of successes/boons to miss a line on the action card. If so, the parry/block had an effect on the attack despite not preventing all damage.