Sorry if this has been asked before, I did a quick search but it turned up no results.

The Death From Afar armor history says that the SM can move and fire basic & pistol class weapons on semi and full auto without penalty. It then says that the SM can treat heavy weapons like Basic Weapons.

Now, my initial reading of this is that Pistol/Basic weapons do not get the penalties as listed under Semi/Full auto for moving and shooting. Namely, they keep the +10 and +20 bonuses. Heavy weapons, however, suffer the normal "No benefit to shooting" on semi, and "-10 to shooting" on full auto that a basic weapon does without Death From Afar.

However, it could very easily be read that Heavy Weapons are treated exactly like Basic weapons, which per the first part of the armor history means you get no down side to moving and shooting the heavy weapon on semi/full auto.

Which way have you guys ruled on it?

Maybe this
www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp
helps.

Alex

It would, except my question is the one left unanswered at the bottom of that thread. how does that work for Heavy Weapons

Though, thank you for the link, not sure why it didn't pop up when I searched for Death From Afar and Armor History

Delahunt said:

I would say that the armor history has two separate parts that do no apply to each other.

You apply the first half of the bonus to basic and pistol weapons gaining their bonuses.

The second half of the bonus is that you get to treat heavy weapons as you would basic weapons, but the first part doesn't apply. So you can move and shoot, and your armor doesn't require heavy weapons to be braced.

ItsUncertainWho said:

the only problem with that reading is that it effectively makes the second part do absolutely nothing. the only people wearing that armor are space marines and every space marine comes standard with bulging biceps regardless of their strength... thereby not requiring you to brace heavy weapons for any proper deathwatch character. you'd have to give heavy weapons the first benefit otherwise the second part is just useless text. the bonus is nice but after a few ranks (and renown) the deathwatch suspensor is much better for heavy weapons and makes the armor benefit redundant.

I do read it as applying the bonuses on a line by line basis, in other words:

Pistols and Basic weapons: Don't take the negative penalty when moving with full auto/semi auto

Heavy Weapons: Able to half move and take a penalty with full auto.

As far as usefulness goes, I would say this is immensely useful for devastators, especially at early ranks. Almost everyone seems to take unrelenting devastation, as it is pretty good. But there is a requirement to its usage that many people seem to forget, and that is that you have to remain in squad mode to keep. Which is easy enough, but that does force the devastator to remain within eyesight, and 30m at rank 1. That can be difficult if the rest of the squad is trying to push up with the assault marine.

Obviously, this is useful on a per situation basis (and I imagine many GMs are nice/lazy, and run very close quarters combat, ignoring that hordes could quite possibly engage the kill team at ranges over 300m), but is useful nonetheless.

Also, this stacks with suspensors quite nicely, allowing a devastator to make a full move and fire full auto. They don't actually interfere or overlap either (suspensors only turn full auto into a half action, and this armour only allows movement during full auto with a heavy weapon).

Imagine a situation where the squad is engaged at range by fire warriors, while out in the open. On the devastators turn, he is not in cover, but there is cover 5 m away, within his half move range. If he has this armour, he can engage and take cover, getting a shot off before taking cover, possibly reducing mag (and therefore the damage they deal), before his battle brothers are attacked. If he lacks this armour, then his options are to engage, but possibly get gunned down first as the fire warriors would focus on him, the greatest threat first, or to run to cover, and leave his battle brothers to be attacked (as maybe the fire warriors are next in initiative), and guarantee someone will be killed (as the pulse rifle is a very nasty thing).

We all can read the exact wording for it so I won't reprint it all here, but it does say basic weapons never take a penalty for shooting and moving and that heavy weapons count as basic for the purposes of moving and firing. Just from wording alone it seems that they wanted to include heavy weapons in on the full effects of the armor. Maybe its just me.

TempestSatori said:

Not sure which way you are talking about this, but when it states "moving and firing," it appears (to me at least), to only be saying that they can in fact, move with it. Not that the previous sentences effect also occurs with heavy weapons.

EDIT:

Also, it reads "for the purpose of", in other words, the history does not mean that heavy weapons = basic weapons. You can't attach a telescopic sight or fire selector to a heavy bolter because of the armour history. It is purely to enable the ability to move and shoot. Which will incur a penalty, as it is not actually a basic weapon (which would not get the penalty because of the history).

KommissarK said:

i stand corrected. i didn't catch the restriction that *only* pistol and basic weapons can move and semi/full auto. the armor ability bascially allows you to keep your bonus while advancing with full/semi auto and allows you to move and fire heavies with the penalty listed. not OP and both parts have a benefit. thanks for clearing that up.

Whats scary, is when this is used with a boltgun with suspensors, and a jetpack.

Half action1: 10m, out from total cover, say around a corner

Half action 2: Full auto attack some target, without penalties, and half move 10m back around the corner to regain total cover.

Unless the enemy is auto stabilised, in overwatch, or has a very large half move (and a powerful standard attack), you're good.

KommissarK said:

i'll have to return the favor and clarify the rule for you, lol. the suspensor is only for heavy weapons so it can't be used with a boltgun (basic weapon). what you're talking about can work to a lesser extent with the heavy bolter, though, but you'll lose the +10/+20 to attack per the move/fire rules under full/semi autofire that you corrected for me.

Yeah, thats totally my mistake, forgot that suspensors can't be used on basic weapons.

It just seems so odd that they provide this massive boost to heavy weapons, basically tossing out the negative aspects of heavy weapons vs. basic, and then adds even more.

I ran into this problem in my game, a player was firing his Missile Launcher every turn while also moving, and I wasn't sure if it was legal or not. Does this mean a Battle Brother with Death From Afar does not need to brace his heavy weapon to avoid a -30 penalty? Or does it simply mean that he can fire a heavy weapon on semi and full auto and move up to his AB as if it were a basic weapon, but it still takes a -30 penalty for not being braced?

AkumaKorgar said:

Marines have bulging biceps talent. They don't get -30 when they don't brace anyway.

Alex

ak-73 said:

Holy cow, you're right. I had completely missed that. That's crazy!

KommissarK said:

The few images that I have seen of suspensors show them to be powered by large backpack units. In my game the house rule is that the use of a suspensor prevents the use of a backpack power supply.

Or rather the Suspensor means you can't use a backpack ammo supply (not power supply).

I wish this forum would let you edit previous messages for longer than a few minutes.