I'm fairly confused by the Grudge tokens, they seem to be completely unneeded (as I understand them) given that they serve purely as a memory aid in play for only a single turn. When I saw that there were twice the needed number of them included in the box, I wondered if I might just be misunderstanding their use. Can someone clarify for me whether there is any point at all to use the Grudge tokens?

They're simply a memory aid. I've had a long time pass between inviting allies and resolving the effects of the encounter on occasion. Maybe it's being over-cautious, but oh well.

But it is weird that there are enough Grudge tokens in the box for a 9-player game... (7 tokens, 7 allies + 2 main players)

Hey, for $60 I'd better be getting every luxury in surplus... I want tokens galor for that kind of dough...

Kevin has already promised a 6th player in the *first* expansion.

So you will need another token for that 6th player. And then there is that FIRST expansion part. Read into that what you will.

Looking at the counter sheet, it seems FFG just had extra space to fill on the die that cuts the counter sheets. They may as well use the entire sheet since it costs them nothing extra.

Just to be difficult, if they had extra space, why not use it on the generic Cosmic counters? There is an odd number of them that implies any filling up of the cardboard stock was used by them, not the Grudge tokens. I think it was 37 total? Or 34? Whatever it was, it wasn't a number that made you think, "Ah, this is EXACTLY how many Cosmic tokens they need." Maybe there aren't immediate plans to put enough players to use all those Grudge tokens in, but it could just be there for in case. 9 players though... yikes.

Adam said:

I think there would be a critical mass of players at which waiting for your turn would start to be a measurable delay. Also, the more players you have for inviting to ally, the less important Attack cards become. You would end up having to add cards to adjust the mean and deviation of the deck, so as to retain its importance in the totals.

Just some thoughts. I think I would put the limit at 7, but no more. Imagine if there's one player going for the win and no one else is capable of winning jointly with him - in a game without mathematically escalating powers (without Macron, A-M, Virus, etc), he's potentially got his 4 ships versus 24 ships defending (they all want to stop the win, right?)

I just see it extending game length to the point where it might cease to be enjoyable. *shrug*

Adam said:

It wasn't an odd or random number of Cosmic tokens at all. I counted them (my set finally arrived from Amazon Friday); there are 42, which is the same value the Human flare changes your attack card to.

The question you now need to ask yourself is, what do you get if there are 6 ships in the cone and the Virus plays an 09?

...huh?

Adam said:

It's from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series, which gave us both the "Mostly Harmless" tagline for the Human and the 42 points on his flare (and the 42 Cosmic tokens, although "using every available square inch of cardboard" also comes to mind for the latter). In the books, the answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything is 42. The Ultimate Question itself is, "What do you get if you multiply six by nine?"

So, if you always thought there was something fundamentally wrong with the universe, you were correct.

I wasn't confused about that. I've read all the books and looking forward to the new one (someone else is taking over the series, if you didn't know). I was confused about your Virus comment 6 x 09 = 54. I don't remember 54 being a special number?

I was more amused by the addition of Attack 23.

23 actually comes from the online game.

Adam said:

I actually didn't know that about the new book... thanks!

My Virus comment was just a reference to the Ultimate Question itself as I quoted it above ("What do you get if you multiply six by nine?")

I think we need to thank Kevin W. once again, this time for putting that "Mostly Harmless" on the Human card and thereby saving this discussion from being totally off topic for the CE forum!

Ah, it's been too long. I wasn't a huge fan of the later books. 1 & 2 ruled though. My fingers are crossed for the new one.