decPL said:

No. No chance for a quote, since it's not in the book.

But p. 236 do say that you can't make the same action twice (standard attack, knock-down, move...) in the same turn and that the subtypes (attack, melee, concentration...) "don't do anything in of themselves".

There's nothing in the RAW that say that you can't make two actions with the subtype attack in the same turn (i.e. you can Feint and make a Standard attack in the same turn!)

Blatifagus said:

As I said above, do check out the DH errata, it should probably apply, even here. No reason for it not to. In this case, its not actually by subtype, but a specific "this action equals that action for the purpose of restricting 2 actions per turn" statement.

My view is that a standard attack can be either a full round or half round action, some attack actions just taking longer to execute than others.

Making a full auto attack into a half action, thanks to suspensors, should not magically make a full auto attack something different than a normal attack and allow a psychic power to be used in the same round. That's just silly.

K is just being difficult and exercising his inner munchkin.

ItsUncertainWho said:

I understand and I agree. A full autoburst takes just as much time and concentration to execute no matter how many gravplates you strap onto your peashooter. The Half action thingy is just to show that you now can take a Move action as well. Kinda.

ItsUncertainWho said:

Yes. We all got one of those, don't we?
It has to be fed and taken out for a walk once in a while if we want to keep it.

But back to the OT.
I'm not convinced that the Focus Power action should be equal with the Standard Attack action. Because it doesn't make any sense!

In DH it might (kinda) make sense because most powers take the same amount of "time" to execute. But in DW we now have some powers that are Free actions to activate. Short and Long-range telepathy for example. Why wouldn't a librarian be able to use it while shooting? It's even explicitly written that those powers are Free to sustain so it's virtualy effortless and roughly the same as a regular conversation.

And it's a Focus Power (free)action to utilise a Force weapons special power, but if a Focus Power rolls equal a standard attack you can't use it.

You see what I mean?

I'm not concerned that the librarians will be overpowered if they can shoot and cast "spells" at the same time. The whole concept of marines is overpowered! It's what makes this particular RPG so cool! How often can you START as one of the mightiest heroes in an entire GALAXY!?

And to finally answer the good Kommisars original question: No. I wouldn't allow a librarian to cast Smite while shooting full auto with a heavy bolter (telepathy would be OK though) since Full auto is a Full action originally. The "extra" half action is reserved for Movement only!

That's how I rule things in my campain anyway, and NO amount of forum arguments will EVER sway me!

Blatifagus said:

No books at hand so I can't quote.

The force weapon allows the Focus power as part of the attack, that is the exception to the rule.

Yes we all do have that inner munchkin. Mine spends it's time glaring at me through the cage i keep it locked up in. Every now and then I poke it with a stick just to make sure it is still alive, but I generally don't let it out when pen & paper games are involved. Video game rpg's are where he gets his exercise.

ItsUncertainWho said:

No, I think he's right. :-) Standard Attack is exactly the half-action as described on page 242, there is no ambiguity wrt that. I think what we have here is a case of FFG not understanding the consequence of their way of putting it back then.

As written in the FAQ a suspensor would allow a Full-Auto burst followed by a "Standard Attack" single-shot.

When they wrote the DH errata, they didn't plan for the DW suspensor, that's what I think. And I think they meant to express that you can only do one attack (of any kind) or use a psy power once. Not both nor more than once.

That's what I think they meant. And that's how I handle it too. :-)

Alex

As a side note, I'm not so much a munchkin, but a gm who likes to play devil's advocate. I just come up with this crap so I can better plan for and predict my players. And warn them of stupid ideas.

KommissarK said:

I just say "NO!"

If that isn't the end of it I make the simple statement of "If you can do it, then so can I. Do you want that?"

I don't think I have ever had any problems after that.

Mostly my players don't try to game the system, mostly.

The RAW guidlines for psychic powers are so pointless to argue about because there is so much that is ambiguous about the ruleset as they stand currently. I think that it is completely fair to use things like telepathy while doing other things and would probably rule that way when running a game. I DO NOT believe that firing off a smite and then using a bolter makes much sense as they are both ranged attacks nor would I be inclined to allow someone to smite after using their force sword because it is equivalent to looking in two directions at the same time. I think that using force dome and smite could work simultaneously with an increase to the focuse tests challenge similar to penalties suffered for weilding two weapons. Each test could be taken at a -20 penalty making success much more challenging but not inconceavable.

Rules-abusing aside (no, I would never alow a half-action full auto and a standard attack), all this does raise an interesting question. Can you preform two actions of the same -type- during a round? For example, Knock Down and Standard Attack are both halv action and of the Attack type. Can you do both in the same round?

I was under the impression that you could not do this, pretty sure I have read about it somewhere. But after reading this I looked through the errata and could find nothing about it. From what I can see you may make two actions of the same type as long as it's not the same specific action. Has anyone found anything else?

No I haven't found anything else and I interpret the rules that way in my games.

I think something else to consider in this back and forth about action types is round length. I don't have a book to hand but if memory serves a round is something in the region of 6 to 8 seconds? Now you have to be a skilled character to use multi-attack (up to 4 attacks in that time), so i severely doubt someone can fire a weapon AND focus on using psychic powers simultaneously, or if they do i'd impose a -30 penalty on EACH action they attempt to squeeze past me as GM.

But then i dislike munchkinds!