Willmanx's games downside and light houserules to correct that

By willmanx, in WFRP House Rules

I love that game. I love the token and stuffs. I bought all the material and I ran over 50 sessions yet with more than 10 players.

though, there are somes aspects of the following subjects players and I dislike in our games :

  • token/fatigue/stress/fortunepoints/Power/blessing : Too many different token manipulations slows the game.
  • Dice pools : Too many black and white dices in every roll slows the game (dices interpretation) for few effect (50% nothing).
  • Fortune point : too weak (50% chances to do nothing), GM has to give a lot of them to balance.
  • Damages : Not enough violence makes combats a bit long compared to Warhammer standards. Requiring too much blows feels d&dish/videogamish.
  • Fatigue/stress : unless you're WP distressed or strained, you don't feel it a lot. Black dices are weak, and makes the pool bigger.
  • Wounds Cards : Among wounds cards, a lot of them have weak critical effect or add more black dices to the game.
  • Insanity Cards : Among Insanity cards, a lot of them have weak effect or add more black dices to the game.
  • Career Card : takes place on the table, shaken by dice rolls, could have been on the career card... When you choose your career you must search for it elsewhere.
  • Talent Card to exhaust : why don't write it requires 4 token on it ? More token manipulation.
  • Stance : takes place on the table, shaken by dice rolls, could have been on the player sheet.
  • Basic Defense Cards : always required for the token (not like other basic cards), but it takes place on the table, shaken by dice rolls, could have been on the player sheet.

Our Houserules or adjustments to correct these aspects that bother us :

  • Token/fatigue : use only one kind of token on cards and characteristics. We use the Fatigue/stress chits. It's less messy and faster.
  • Lighter Dice Pool (white dices) : put out of the game every Talent that only add some passive white dice everywhere. If people want more white dices, they may tran specializations. There are a lot of other interesting talents than these one.
  • Lighter Dice Pool (black dices) : Use black dices only when abilities requires it (defense, etc). Otherwise, adjusting Challenge dices is more simple and effective.
  • Fatigued/Distressed : You retire one characteristic dice from the pool per fatigue/stress over the tested characteristic (no black dice, big effect, and lighter pool).
  • Fortune Points : Spending a point give you a BLUE dice, not a white one. no 50% effect no more then.
  • More Damages (critical hits) : I use the GM Toolkit option. Moreover, when a critical hit is scored, it had a number of normal wounds to the damages equal to its severity.
  • More memorables Wounds (wounds cards) : There is A LOT of wound cards now. Why don't you select them and put out every wound care with "minor" black dices effects, "flesh wounds", lighter fatigues/stress stuffs, and keep the more violent ones. We are talking CRITICAL aren't we ? :)
  • More memorables Insanities (Insanity cards) : Same as Wounds cards. Put out black dices effects, lighter fatigues/stress and keep heavy effect and roleplay based effects.
  • Career talent : you may write it on your character sheet or put in on the career sheet advancement table.
  • Talent cards to exhaust : When you exhaust a talent, turn the card face down until the end of the encounter. You may use it again if you asses the situation or if you pay a fortune point. Don't use 4 token and try this way, it is really quick, nice and effective. Keep your token for real action cards.
  • Stance and Basic Defense cards : I modified the Official character sheet (and translated it in french) to make them appears directly on the sheet.
  • Basic cards : don't use them... Moreover we don't roll no more guarded position and assess the situation because you never miss and the side effect are minors and may be automatic.

My GM Tricks to adjust difficulty :

  • Range attack : 1 black dice per range to balance it makes as much damage as melee attack.
  • Chaos star = 1 failure + reroll (like the Hammer Plus on yellow expertise dice).
  • A/C/E : fatigue retires aggression dice, you may use Cunning dices to defend yourself instead of managing basic defenses cards. You may use aggression dice to make 1 more manoeuver (GM toolkit).

I'm interessed you shared your view about these points. Good gaming.

Very interesting ideas!

I think u got a point on the most bugging stuff in this edition: tokens management and dice pool size. For myself i've seen that replacing FFG tokens whit glass beads of 2 or 3 colors works great: they are easy to spot and handle. also the suggestion on exhausting talent card is good, because i've seen that usually whit 4 tokens the action is already over before it's fully recharged, so intending them as "once per encounter is ok"...or if u want to be softer "once per act", making them rechargable in the rally step.

As for managing dice pool, i think it would be easyer to not make any changes on which dices fortune (or stress/fatigue) tokens are converted. Instead, just before the pool is rolled we need an easy formula to convert some white/black dices in blue/purple ones....for example i would say that if i spot 3 black dices i will sobstitute them for a purple dice, or that if i spot 2 fortune dices, i will convert them in a blue one. The problem is i can't calculate the precise impact on the outcome of those dice, so i hope some statistical-math-guru can help on this topic, and come up whit an easy reference table! gran_risa.gif

Instead i'm not a big fan of making criticals even more dangerous. Maybe it is because i dont have any really proficient fighter in my group, nor a proper healer, but i've seen that combat is nasty enough for their tastes, and the criticals often have an impact on many game session before they can heal.

Ghiacciolo said:

As for managing dice pool, i think it would be easyer to not make any changes on which dices fortune (or stress/fatigue) tokens are converted. Instead, just before the pool is rolled we need an easy formula to convert some white/black dices in blue/purple ones....for example i would say that if i spot 3 black dices i will sobstitute them for a purple dice, or that if i spot 2 fortune dices, i will convert them in a blue one. The problem is i can't calculate the precise impact on the outcome of those dice, so i hope some statistical-math-guru can help on this topic, and come up whit an easy reference table!

I quite like this idea - 3 misfortune dice convert to one challenge, 3 fortune convert to one expertise (I prefer expertise rather than characteristic as they have more prominant effects, and stats are really the only things that add a blue dice - don't really want that to change). This way you'd never roll more than 2 fortune/misfortune dice per dice pool.

Of course, you could always go the 'cancels the other out' route, just as nearly everything else to do with the dice is. I know this was deliberately not included in the RAW, but if you want smaller dice pools, this would also have the desired effect. In fact, this coupled with the above, you might want to make it challenge/expertise for every 2 dice...

On the subject of fortune points, I kinda think they are fine as they are - after all, they are suppose to be a pretty common occurance, and refresh regularly. However, you could try the rule from Tome of Blessings/Signs of Faith about having them re-roll fortune/misfortune dice. *shrug* I do realise this is going against your 'trying for less rolls' thing though...

I changed the talent card refresh rule to also refresh in the rally steps actually.

We kinda like the big dice pools because they offer great diversity on results. Cancelling dice out or replacing dice changes the outcome a lot. It may not have a great impact on success/failure in terms of the statistical chance, but with 5 black vs 5 white you could either get 5 banes or 5 boons as end result. If the dice cancels out, this isn't possible. We have seen some insane rolls over our many sessions where players have against the odds rolled either most/all negative dice blank in a tough check or rolled most/all good dice blank in an easy roll. This adds some "what the ...." situations that we enjoy.

It is however nice to have enough dice for every player to have his own, so he can have ready dice pools all the time and just add challenge and misfortune dice according to the GM instructions. That saves a lot of time.

The reason I canged the fortune points is that I don't want them to be given out as often, so usually they will just have the three for a session.

Willmanx, these are really brilliant. You've also got a lot of credibility here with what you say because you've been playing a LOT of games and get a lot of feedback.

These are many of the same things that I've been seeing.

I'll probably be putting out a new house rulebook from my group shortly and intend to incorporate your great ideas.

Keep it fast, keep it fun!

Jay H

What does it mean when you say you don't use the basic action cards? melee? Ranged? Parry? Block?

jh

Emirikol said:

What does it mean when you say you don't use the basic action cards? melee? Ranged? Parry? Block?

jh

Why FFG sell a not-so-good iPhone app and use a forum that doesn't work on it ?! That's why i'm a bit late to answer sorry (that forum is forbidden at work because its http contains "games").

thanks for your comments Jay.

About basic cards, I don't use the card themselves, but we still use their rules. The GM (me) has got the basic action card sheet from Gitzman. players only use parry/block/dodge to put token on it, but we are working on a new character sheet with an area with these immediatly on it.

http://www.gitzmansgallery.com/WFRP3_Resources/index.html

Thanks for your work by the way, I can't wait for Liber Fanatica.