N0-1_H3r3 said:

While what you said is true, would you pick a specialty because your chapter gives you a 5% bonus over other chapters? Isn't that a negligible"waste"?

Alex

I'd change the WS bonus to AGI, that gives them a bonus to Dodge and Initiative, which helps all specialities.

While that is true from a game mechanics perspective, it's not very appropriate from a thematic standpoint. Now, while that would be a great suggestion for the White Scars (they are the really agile bike using chapter, right? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.), the Space Wolves are not notable for being any faster or more agile than any other chapter. What most of us find notable is their skill in and love of close combat, and their highly acute senses which go so far beyond those of other space marines that the only reasons they would even bother wearing a helmet is if it would be impossible to go without it (in the case of operating in the void of space) or if the need for extra protection to their head is so great that it outweighs the benefit of their natural senses. I'm not trying to discourage you from making a suggestion, I'm just pointing out that the Chapters were put together based on the established lore surrounding them.

I agree Daisuke. there is only one wolf who was known for his speed and that is ragnar.

I was reading through the book last night and again, when I got to the Wolves' Solo Ability I said aloud, "This is stupid!" Sure, that's my opinion, but going further, I think based on their Chapter Squad mode abilities, a solo ability that goes along with the lone-wolf archetype seems to make more sense to me.

A pack of wolves will work together and take down their prey through teamwork. I think that is displayed. A solitary wolf will starve and die without the pack or unless they use cunning. I think something that gives the SW a bonus to finding the weakness of his enemies, allowing a benefit to combat, an advantage to be taken advantage of sounds like a better course.

I like the look of your Solo Ability, though it looked a bit confusing with the +10 to hit based on previous hits, is that for elite enemies only? I figure it is because of the +5 to hit after doing at least 1 magnitude damage to hordes. Kind of looks like what I was talking about, taking advantage of an enemies injuries(weakness) to allow victory.

And as for the current Solo mode ability of heightened senses? I say just make it a special ability of the SW's, one that they can not always use due to atmospheres and toxins and such, but something that makes them unique to them.

E

Just read the retool of the Space Wolves and I thought t did tons more justice than what was given in the RB. It's almost a shame that my groups Rune Priest didn't get a chance to use these retooled stats... almost being the key word. Nice job, Son o' Russ.

The Battle Brother slays with unrelenting fury, the blood coating his blade only inspiring greater ferocity. A number of times equal to the Battle Brother's rank, he may gain a +10 bonus to hit in Melee for every enemy he slew in the previous turn, and a +5 bonus to hit for every point of Magnitude he removed from an enemy Horde. (thanks for this one N0-1_H3r3).

Ok, I read this as the player gains the +10 bonus against individual (non horde) opponents. So a rank three SW may attack with a +20 against his next foe up to three times, as long as each time prior to the attack he kills two enemies.

And... I understand the +5 bonus to be the same thing but when he is fighting hordes.

Is my interpretation correct?

E

ejacobs said:

That's correct.

However, on reflection, +5 per point of magnitude might be a little high. I've just run the numbers, and if you stack it two turns in a row against a Horde, it can produce some pretty high numbers, allowing you to hit the +60 upper limit pretty damned fast. A bonus equal to Magnitude or twice Magnitude might be a little more reasonable, particularly once characters reach Rank 8 and get things like Whirlwind of Death.

Hmmm, I didn't read it as stackable, only useable up to the number of times equal to the rank of the player. Rank 3 for example, kills two individual enemies, next round he gets a +20 to his next attack. He kills 3 magnitude of horde with that. His next attack he then gets a +15. He kills 5 magnitude horde with that. He then attacks the horde again with +25 killing 5 magnitude again. His third use of the ability then lets him attack the horde again, or perhaps another individual with a +25 bonus. Sounds pretty good to me.

E

Personally I'm quite happy with FFGs take on the Wolves.
The SW talent/skill list portray the mentality of the Wolves in a nice and "fluffy" way, but I DO miss something that'll portray them as the ferrocious close quarters fighters they're supposed to be. But the things you've written in this thread is over the top (IMHO). I wouldn't want the Wolves to be just another battle-frenzy-monster chapter. They're much more versatile than that.

I love their solo ability and find it very useful and wouldn't change it for the world, but he Fel bonus is just... wrong though. I give my SW players +5 WS instead. And to represent their talent, instincts and ferociousness in combat I've added Combat Sense for 500 (very nice with the solo mode ability) and Street Fighter for 400 to the SW list. And that's it.

Surgeon said:

Don't want to tread on anyone's toes, but totally I agree with Surgeon that the AG bonus fits better with the SW imagery than WS or Fel bonuses. The SW are hunters, pure and simple, from Fenris to the Great Hunts it's what they do best.

Being a hunter isn't about savagery in combat, though it plays it's part, it is about stalking your foe, patiently planning your attack and most importantly landing the first blow. If we consider for a moment what attributes make a great hunter we'd probably come up with camouflage, stealth, perception and the ability to stalk the prey.

What skills does the ruleset give us that compliment this? Awareness, Silent Move, Concealment, Shadowing... and how many of these are AG based skills?

Anyway, it's food for thought, please continue to develop this idea.

I quite like the current stat bonuses, they fit the flavour of the Chapter, as they are known for being pack-orientated and one of the more 'moral' chapters (along with Salamanders and Blood Angels), who care about the Imperium's citizens. The Solo Mode abilities are kinda crappy, though. I'd probably give something like Counter-Attack as an ability, and maybe allow the Unnatural Perception etc with a helmet on.

Note that 'excelling in close quarters combat' does not mean 'excel in melee'. The Space Wolves tabletop list is particularly good at engaging in short-ranged firefights (sort of like Salamanders, actually), as opposed to melee, which Blood Angels tend to be better at.

Howdy!

I am mostly happy with the FFG DW take on the Space Wolves.

We made the following changes in our group:

Trade Resistance: Cold for Lore, Scholastic Codex Astartes.

Add to chapter advances

200 Swim

600 Counter Attack

The only other change we made is if you are running a lone wolf then swap +5 Fel for +5 Ag.

I may have confused some....

You don't have to change a lot to get a good Space Wolf build.

Replace Lore: Codex Astartes with Resistence: Cold