Wondering what you all think about....

A: Apothecaries being able to take a chainsword instead of a bolter?

B: Assault Marines being able to take a flamer instead of a chainsword?

C: Devestators being able to take a missile launcher instead of a heavy bolter?

Baradiel said:

You'd only end up saving the PCs the Requisition points... I think they should have something to spend them on and these things are cheap and readily available.

Alex

Baradiel said:

I agree with that, part of the fun of rpgs is making your character unique. You might base it on mission also. As far as requisition goes you can use that to increase the quality of said items and in the case of a missile launcher the ammo.

Definitely agree. In the campaign i'm currently in my gm let me swap out a fair amount of kit to break up the monotony a bit (we had an apothecary in the last group.

I ended up swapping the bolter (w/ fire selector), combat knife, 3x Kraks & 2x frags (equivalent to 15 requisition) for the diagnostor helm. I also swapped my bolt pistol (5 req) for a chainsword (also 5 req).

So basically i ended up with a melee based apothecary who was good at his job but kept out of the fights to keep a better eye on his squad-mates. To get around having no ranged weaponage i then took the signature wargear talent and got him a heavy flamer with dipole maglock so he can quickly stow it when needing to administer 1st-aid.

sgtgrarm said:

Sound like he is going easy on you.

Peachey said:

Not to me. Playing an Apothecary myself, I am astounded that we have to requisition such signature items for our specialty. My Apothecary has unexpectedly turned into the biggest Requisition dump in the squad, because I'm spending 35 requisition a mission on what I consider basic gear for my character. 15 of that is a jetpack, which I have no problems paying for. Because while it makes tons of sense for my character due to his background as a Ravenguard and for practical reasons because the extra mobility means you can get to your patients faster and so heal them faster, it's not something traditional to an Apothecary. The other 20 for the Diagnostor helmet and chainsword, things you see on pretty much EVERY Apothecary art or fig EVER, I am significantly less happy about. While everyone else is using Signature Wargear to get cool weapons, I've had to use it to get my helmet. Very embittering. As much as having that bolter has helped, I would have been much happier paying my 5 requisition for that than I am paying 5 requisition for the chainsword because even though a PC Apothecary will probably end up with both the chainsword is the iconic weapon for them, not the bolter.

While I am not sold on the Assault Marine swap out, I definately agree with the Devesator option. Our GM was suggesting ours take the missile launcher for a mission because he'd done the math and seen how awesome it was against some of the things we were going up against. But the Devestator didn't do it, becuase it would have used up so much requisition for so little gain when you can already accomplish a lot with the heavy bolter and special rounds. Even if the missle launcher is better, it's just not better enough to be worth the costs. If you were able to swap it out freely, it would be an actual option.

Blizzard36 said:

So the GM gave you the Pilot (Personal) skill from the start or as an elite advance because of your background? Because as I've read it, you can't really operate it efficiently without the skill. Otherwise I'm sure everyone would get one.

Yes, we figured it would be one of the Ravenguard chapter advances given thier extensive use of jetpack equipped quick strike forces, set a price, and I purchased it with some of my starting XP.

In the game im currently gming, i pretty much ignore the whole point system, they say what they may want, and i decide if it is viable, i generally let them get about 3 things, give or take, depending on the size and such, ofcourse i do the same thing for almost all the rules

Blizzard36 said:

I don't think it's a surprise to most people that a starting character is really well equipped tactical marine, basic devastator or assault marine or an under equipped Techmarine / Psyker / Apothecary.

Just from a points / balance cost it's not really possible, For example, Techmarines come with Artificer armour and a back full of mechandrites as standard in the TT but you can't let that be starting equipment in the RPG if other people have the current starting gear. Most chapters have a Techmarine / Psyker / Apothecary per company so equipping most Deathwatch kill teams with one or more of the three is going to be going in the training list somewhat who are fully capable Space Marines in their own right, just not a level they are used to showing us.

So yes when you are a bit short of points anyway some flexibility would be nice, any req for req change (within reknown ranks) i'd at least hear. Not sure I'd let someone trade out their combat knife or bolt pistol.

Face Eater said:

I suggest that some of the other players occasionally treat their Apothecary well and hand him over some req so that he can buy a plasma pistol or whatever. After all he is spending req on a jump pack just to save their rear ends.

Alex

What my current DW group does (I play the Salamander Librarian, we have a Space Wolf Ass , a Raven Guard Apoth, and a 'Yup', Ultramarine based chapter, Devastator) is pool our req after we get the things we want. If I only take a few clips of ammo, I put the rest of my points in the 'pool'. This helps the others get things they want/need for the mission. So far we've managed to get everyone something special for at least one mission. It makes it so you don't start taking useless crap and begin thinking more like a team. Of course it also makes our options for fire power much much greater

sgtgrarm said:

Not to be a ******, but you do realise that Heavy weapons can't be upgraded with Dipole Maglocks, right? Of course, if you meant a Basic Flamer, then disregard this.

Personally, I like the Requisition system. Anything that gives the players more opportunity to make tactical decisions, the more it adds to a military RPG.

korvass said:

I totally agree with this. Equipping the sqad for a mission should feel like building your army list for a game of 40K, not the greedy "MINE MINE MINE" you see in a lot of Role Playing Games.

GOOD EVENING BROTHERS!!!!!!!!!!!.......MAY THE ALLFATHER BE WITH ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!..................THIS IS THE ASTARTES STANDARD COMBAT LOAD I GIVE TO MI KILLTEAM, IM THE GM

ASTARTES GRAPNEL
ASTARTES HARNESS
CODEX ASTARTES(IF WANTED)
MULTYKEY[(1)MUST HAVE SECURITY SKILL TO RECIVE IT]
VOX-CASTER(LEADER)
LUMINATOR SIGNAL FLARES(5)
STALKER FLARES(5)

ALL OF THE ABOVE CAME TO ME AS A NECESSITY FOR HAVING YOUR KILL-TEAM READY TO REACT TO A LOT OF DIFERENT SITUATIONS AND/OR USE DIFERENT KINDS OF APPROACHES.

DEATH TO THE ALIEN!!!!... DEATH TO THE HERETIC!!!!!!!!......THE EMPEROR PROTECTS!!!!!!!!!!!

Your caps lock appears to be stuck.

I'm of the mind that speciality apo kit is 'expensive', but should be subsidised by the rest of the party.

BrotharTearer said:

Pilot (personal) is 100xp and available to all PCs as a Rank 1 advance, according to the errata.

Siranui said:

Siranui said:

The techmarine equipment is not much cheaper, if at all.
He doesn't even get basic tools (the combi tool) for his job, while the apo starts with more than basic medical equipment.
The Servoarm is fine, yes but as long as it doesn't count as combitool the low-rank techi is always underequipped.

In addition the auspex and voxcaster are best used by the techmarin, too because of the tech use skill nessesary to fully use both. So two more items the TM should buy. If the kill team doesn't support him (perhaps even over the apo) he will not have anything besides standard stuff the team needs. (more than an diagnostor helmet in most cases)

The auspex is -IMHO- best used by the pointman with the highest Perception.

Combi-tool "only" gives +10 to Tech-Use. While very cool, that is in no way necessary.

Auspex? Read the Auger Array Implant Of course, that's a "sacrifice" (a non-choice for the free implant of a starting Techie)...

Implants can be bought once and then remain forever, without costing more requisition.

To the OP: In the demo adventure for the Free RPG day of last year, the Apothecary was armed with a chainsword and a bolter pistol. That meant that the apothecary was out of range for most of the non-melee or non-closed spaces combats in the adventure. Very frustrating to the player.

As for the Techmarine, once he can buy the Forge Master advance he becomes a walking god. Artificer Armour for free (AP12), plus Armour Mongrel (+2 AP) plus Machine (2) (+2AP plus no need for breathing and the like, and he can "heal" himself with Tech Use). Terminator Armour has AP 14 and weighs 4 times what an Artificer Armour does...

Argus Van Het said:

But only if you hand your GM a crack pipe before asking him!

This is one of the more problematic Requisition rules, and essentially breaks the otherwise stringent Requisition 'economy'. I recommend drawing a line through it and instead bringing it in-line with the rest of the system by either charging ongoing Requisition for permanent items, or by charging XP, as per the Wargear.

Siranui said:

Exactly my opinion. And it doesn't make them worse, to tell the truth. Only "logical". What we did also was that a player had been very severely (ultra-mega-critically ) wounded to the chest, he "bought" the Sprint Talent and had an exceptionnal bionic heart. Worked allright, to. He had burned a Fate Point, after all.

I think I'm alone is saying that I like the starting gear rules.

You get:

Basic weaponry for marines ( Godlike for anyone else in the empire )

Powered Armor with a ton of goodies in it ( yadayadayada godlike yadayada )

Basic specialized equipement ( Servo arm + cybernetic option / Reductor + med thingy / force weapon for the mentioned 3 )

So here is my thing:

using the example given at the start of the thread:

If an apotecary needs a Jump pack ( haven't seen a jumping apotecary anyone on books or standart isue army lists ) + diagnotic helmet + a sword as basic gear, what is a well equiped medic? what do you want req points for after having those items?

Isidro

Baradiel said:

Thats not bad idea, i would just make some minor changes because i like to try and reflect the tabletop game.

A: Thats fine because you can model them with both on table top

B: I wouldnt allow it because a it costs points in tabletop for assault marines, However is if a tactical marine wanted a flamer (lets say because he is a salamander) i would allow that.

C: Yeah that too is legit in my games.

I just like to keep my game style close to table top but its a great idea.