On page 161 under recoil suppression it states it provides the ability to fire basic weapons one handed.
A player in my group asked if he may fire his boltgun one handed. Additionally the character sheet states recoil suppression also means they can fire a basic weapon one handed without penalty.
Down to the meat and bones on this one is there a rule or some text I am missing somewhere about boltguns being fired with one hand?
nope u can fire Bolter one hand withouth any penalties to BS
U may even fire two bolters at same time with two-weapon wielder talent.
Just to be clear I am not talking about a bolt pistol I mean a bolter, the standard issue rifle a marine would normally carry in two hands.
Even if the rules on that are as stated I might house rule that one to not work. Two pistols could be wielded to get a max ROF of 6 but two bolters for 8 just seems too good for a tac or apoth to be throwing out there every turn.
The RAW is, yes, you can wield a boltgun one handed. So you can dual wield two boltguns. Two things to remember about this is that the boltguns are still basic weapons and cannot be used in melee, and reloading one or both is going to take more time since both hands are full.
As a house rule I cut range in half when wielding a basic weapon one handed. Similar to the extra grip upgrade in DH.
boruta666 said:
nope u can fire Bolter one hand withouth any penalties to BS
U may even fire two bolters at same time with two-weapon wielder talent.
RAW you can even fire 2 bolters at the same time WITHOUT the two-weapon wielder talent, you just get more penalties to hit. The talent just reduces the penalties.
Warhawk X said:
Just to be clear I am not talking about a bolt pistol I mean a bolter, the standard issue rifle a marine would normally carry in two hands.
Space marines can shoot all basic weapons onehanded.
About dual wielding Boltguns: It's possible.
But something else: Can you use a melee attachment with one hand, too?
I understand it's possible, I just am not an avid fan as a GM of allowing it unless there is a real clear reason why one battle brother is dual wielding sacred rifles that are issued one per marine.
Not to mention it allows a tac marine to almost get the damage of a devastator without the set up/take down time of the heavy bolter.
There's already a massive thread on the use of dual wielded bolters with melee attachments, so search if you want to read the debate.
But, in general, it's dumb. Don't do it.
Well in truth the issue originated from a librarian wanting to hold his bolter in one hand and his force staff in the other to keep the benefits of the force staff.
Anyone have a similar issue come up?
Don't have a librarian in my group, but I would rule that the force staff is a two handed weapon, or more that, the invocation bonus or whatever it gives is the result of having a physical connection to both hands.
On recoil suppression in general, I don't think its so bad. Sure, dual wielding boltguns is silly. I would allow it though, as well as firing both on full auto. About the only thing I would force is that melee attachments = two handed weapons. I use the leverage argument with this. Sure a space marine is strong, but making a meaningful attack with a bayonet is just impossible one handed with the boltguns pistol grip. It fits with the previous bayonet style weapons from DH. I think not saying it is two handed is more of a typo/they forgot to say it, of course, writing FFG a question on it might not be so bad.
Also, most specialties don't get two weapon wielder, and the benefits of two bolters don't really outweigh the negative aspects.
1. Not having a close combat weapon ready hurts.
2. Reload time is pain.
3. Unless you have TWW(ballistic), theres going to be some penalties.
All to gain what? A possible 4 more hits with a boltgun, max? At the risk of getting your arm chewed off in melee?
I would say by far a better loadout is boltgun in one hand, chainsword/melee weapon in the other. Its iconic space marine style, and works very well, without coming across as too munchkiny.
Now, boltgun and bolt pistol may be kinda weird. Would solve part of the melee problem. I doubt players would consider this though.
As far as examples go, I would say there are indeed plenty of instances of space marines using boltguns one handed. Check a whole lot of the artwork, heck, even the cover of the book.
I may just send in a rules question on this one however as much as I love your answers for most things I gotta disagree about the Force Staff not giving a bonus in one hand. As the entry in the actual book under force staff states the librarian need only be holding it in one hand to gain the invocation bonuses from it.
This then also allows a librarian to wield a bolt pistol, or melee weapon in his other hand while gaining the bonus. The force staff is not a particularly bad weapon on its own, however the one handed bonus allows them to be more versatile without suffering too much when they need to draw a pistol or a similar situation where using a psychic ability may not always be the best option.
Gas on the fire, I know, but isn't firing in burst mode a full round action? And most of the Two Weapon talents specifically talk about being able to fire pistol class weapons on full auto. Simple rule is to say sure you can dual wield the bolt guns, but you can only autofire with one of them. Alternately, and equally simple, is to refuse to issue a second bolter to the marine that wants it. Finally, just tell your players what Radomo said, and that dual wielding bolters on full auto is just dumb.
Charmander said:
Gas on the fire, I know, but isn't firing in burst mode a full round action? And most of the Two Weapon talents specifically talk about being able to fire pistol class weapons on full auto. Simple rule is to say sure you can dual wield the bolt guns, but you can only autofire with one of them. Alternately, and equally simple, is to refuse to issue a second bolter to the marine that wants it. Finally, just tell your players what Radomo said, and that dual wielding bolters on full auto is just dumb.
... but possible.
SpawnoChaos said:
Charmander said:
Gas on the fire, I know, but isn't firing in burst mode a full round action? And most of the Two Weapon talents specifically talk about being able to fire pistol class weapons on full auto. Simple rule is to say sure you can dual wield the bolt guns, but you can only autofire with one of them. Alternately, and equally simple, is to refuse to issue a second bolter to the marine that wants it. Finally, just tell your players what Radomo said, and that dual wielding bolters on full auto is just dumb.
... but possible.
What would be dumb is allowing character to do it, when no other space marine in the history of the Imperium has worked out it's possible, for some reason.
Radomo said:
There's already a massive thread on the use of dual wielded bolters with melee attachments, so search if you want to read the debate.
But, in general, it's dumb. Don't do it.
My question wasn't about dual wielding them. Just about using one of them onehanded if the other hand is needed for something else.
Umbranus said:
Radomo said:
There's already a massive thread on the use of dual wielded bolters with melee attachments, so search if you want to read the debate.
But, in general, it's dumb. Don't do it.
My question wasn't about dual wielding them. Just about using one of them onehanded if the other hand is needed for something else.
Then in that case, absolutely yes
Their is also the issue of Role playing as opposed to Roll playing.
As mentioned, your bolter is a sacred device, imbued with a rich and long history, handed down from battle brother to battle brother. It's machine spirit is venerable. It is an extension of who you are, just as your armour. It would be offended if you thought so little ot it. Just as your armour needs to be honoured by keeping its original chapter colours on it shoulder, your deep held beliefs in the sanctity of your weapons and the writings of the Codex Astartes guide your very soul and are a foundation stone of your deepest convictions.
Or you could just look at the rules and roll some dice and be "Joe Blow da Space Marine"
Cheers,
Tam
Yeah the actual situation that originated the post is a psyker holding a force staff one handed to gain the benefits while firing a bolter in the other hand without penalty.
Which I think everyone has pretty much agreed is fair game.