This is the WH40K universe... the time-line isn't terribly rigid. Its actually not uncommon for ships entering the Warp to arrive at the destination decades before they left their port of origin. I seem to recall one Ork Warboss who proceeded to track down his past-self in order to kill him and get two of his favorite shootas.

Wait, what? DW is not set in the "now" of the 40k universe? Guess I should actually bother to read the lore section

Honn said:

Yeah, I don't know why but it is. The dead give away is the section on slumbering alien menaces.

Which obviously doesn't give you a lot of background of Blood Ravens, I know they fought a bunch of orks in some war or other.

Honn said:

It is set in 817.M41.

Any chance of an update to fit the Rites of Battle rules?

Also, I'm not sold on the ability with the Astronomicron. It's only seen in Goto's work, notable for such curiosities as discussions of Eldar kidneys and MULTILASERS, and doesn't really mesh with their other, canon portrayals.

Face Eater said:

It's done so because GW have told FFG that they aren't allowed to mess with established cannon, or cover things outside their remit. Outside their remit would include such things as advancing beyond 999.M41 (which is where the 40k setting is pretty much fixed now). Therefore, because it allows them more flexibility and lots of less-covered time to flesh out, they set it about 200 years before the "current" date.

Well, Tartarus may or may not have already happened. Goto says it was 999 m41 for original DOW, but that seems a bit fishy. DOW II has a canon date in the original introduction, but I can't look it up now.

In any event, Kyras is chapter master and "totally loyal", with Diomedes as 1st company captain of the honour guard as of the game?

Relic has been largely mum on the dates of the DOW series since the first one, probably because GW doesn't want people pushing the 999 boundary yet. Docs have DOW 1 taking place 999, but DOW 2 gives no dates (that I've ever seen). Chaos Rising is a year after DOW 2, and Retribution is another 10 years into the future.

It's theoretically into M42, even if you call bull on the 999 date, Hive Fleet Leviathan doesn't show upon the radar until 997 M41, so even if you just say 11 years after that you're already over the line. But as others have said this wouldn't be the first (and won't be the last) time numbers don't add up properly. They can easily retcon it saying it was too far away from the High Lords to be considered accurate.

Face Eater said:

Every Space Marine chapter has fought against Orks. The Grey Knights are a possible exception, though as the Ork codex includes an entry where the Orks launched a waagh at the Eye of Terror*, I wouldn't be surprised for Grey Knights and Orks to get into a fight after they both go after the same daemon incursion.

*The Orks involved keep being reconstructed by a daemon prince each day, to fight their way across his daemon world. Orks being Orks, they like this result.

Unwitting pawns of Tzeentch. That's my thought.

They are not to be trusted.

Any ideas for Rites of Battle? Making them a successor chapter doesn't really fit, though Dark Angels or Ultramarine psychic powers and attack patterns mesh the best with them. Also, for the Primarch's Curse, they seem to fall because they believe they can control/use Chaos powers for the good of the Chapter. (Tarkus, Thaddeus)

Any ideas for updating the Primarch's Curse? It's good, but doesn't quite fit most cases.

Ugolino said:

I was thinking a Successor to Raven Guard, but then you would probably have to go into making them too. Primarch's curse would be the thirst for knowledge, more and more you become obssessed for obtaining forbidden knowledge, at first for the better of the chapter/kill-team, then maybe for your self (since hey you are part of the chapter/kill-team), then eventually you have gone over the edge gotten close to 100 corruption points and on your way to becoming a Daemon Prince! YAY!

Looking at Rites of Battle's create your chapter rules (which I almost feel is a bit of a misnomer, since it's more like 'adapt your own existing chapter), there are a few ideas I could see working for Blood Ravens though, as always, your mileage my vary.

For chapter stats, I'd say the list provides a fairly decent selection in the form of +5 Perception and +5 Intelligence, calling out the chapter as a band of warrior scholars that more easily notice things that others might have missed. Seems to fit pretty well for a chapter so focused on knowledge. Not so different than what others have given them already though, and an argument could be made for replacing either perception or intelligence with willpower, but we'll leave that aside.

For Gene-Seed issues, they have an entry for the Catalepsean Node that causes the members of the chapter to stay awake for days or weeks at a time, unable to sleep normally, but fully alert and taking no ill effects. The downside, however, is that sometimes members of the chapter are prone to suffer from what might be called severe bouts of narcolepsy that can, themselves, last for days on end as well. I think this fits pretty well with the fact that the fluff states that the Ravens are incapable of entering REM sleep... tack on the perfect recall and you've basically got the answer there.

Moving on, Solo and Squad mode abilities are where things start to get interesting. There are couple of choices here that I could see working for them for Solo mode, the first of which lets the chapter pick two skills and re-roll failed tests with them. At Rank four, it improves to also give +10 to these skills, and at rank 8 you also gain a bonus degree of success. Choosing two knowledge skills might work well... Or, there's also an ability that functions similar to the above, but you pick a characteristic and gain the above bonuses with all rolls relating to that characteristic. Intelligence or Willpower seems the obvious choice if one takes this route. Finally, there's an ability which simply gives all members of the chapter Psyniscience as a trained skill and the ability to reroll to resist psychic powers. As for squad mode, there's not a really great option for attack, but defensive has one literally called 'Knowledge is Power' which is sustainable and gives +10 (improving to +20) to any rolls to resist sorcery and witchcraft... even dodge rolls.

Finally, there's the knowledge is power advance table for the chapter, which includes a fair amount of scholastic and forbidden lore, infused with knowledge, and foresight.

So, yeah, looking at Rites of Battle, that's my 2 thrones. Might be able to cobble something together with that.

My Deathwatch game GM's modified the pre-existing rules from this site for use in their game and to match the timeframe:

http://pastebin.com/jzCEPJ4x

Credit for aspects you recognize would of course go to their creators.

not strictly on the blood ravens, but in the thousand sons heresy book it describes the space wolf rune priest as being of considerably more power than ahriman, but says ahriman has more control because he is more careful with his power. with this in mind when I designed my pre heresy thousand sons rules I gave them +1 psy rating with a possibility of purchasing an extra +1, but ruled that it still capped at 10, and the thousand sons could not push powers because they spent so much of their will power building protective barriers around their mind

So when Magnus was saved from a Titan's blast by a TK shield, that wasn't 'pushing' the power?

I think the 1KS push just as much as others... it's just that they are foolish enough to think that they have it all under control. I'd personally be more inclined to give them some kind of bonus for having a demonic familiar hanging around, but then a corresponding nerf. Maybe extra safety against backlash, but 'pushing' only gives x1.5 or something?

well... given that there was no perils of the warp as far as I can remember probably not. Infact I cant remember a single mention of wierd phenomena the whole book, compared with eisenhorn practically every time a psychic power is used ice grows on nearby surfaces. remember that with +2 psy rating one of my mid level 1ks marines is only slightly less powerful than a comparable psyker who is pushing. so it looks like a push to a blunt, but less perils of the warp.

I did also include tutelaries as a solo mode, that they could meditate and send out their tutelary, they can see what it can see up to their psy rating in km away. it is invisible to conventional sight but easy to detect with psyniscience and and damage done to the tutelary with psychic attacks while the mind link is in place is inflicted on the brother. at high rank the marine may cast psychic powers as though he is wherever the tutelary is, ie measure range from the tutelary

[edit] as a demonstration, supposing the 1ks librarian can cast something of equivalent power to the force barrier power from the dark angels list and could stand over magnus so that the attack hits him instead of magnus. a psy rating 10 librarian at unfettered casts force barrier, while sustained this gains him 30 armour and all ranged attacks count as pen 0, assume magnus' toughness is at least 50, he is wearing artificer armour and his wounds are at least 20, use a turbolaser destructor from rites of battle. thats the most powerful titan weapon. assume it hits twice as it is twin linked. 4d10+30 -30(force barrier) -5 (TB) - 12 artificer armour = 4d10-17, an average of 8 wounds from both shots added together, barely even a scratch to a primarch I'm sure.

The guy putting up the TK shield nearly died due to the strain of doing so.... I'd kinda call that a 'push' myself! And Ahriman's bit of astral travel where he needed to be bailed out by the Space Wolf seemed to be pushing his abilities a bit too far, as well. And of course a Captain horribly mutated while dishing it out to the Space Wolves on Shrike. The 1KS certainly seem to be able to push results, but don't seem to do so very often. They arrogantly assume that it's all under control, when really... it isn't.

Well ok, It doesnt really matter, I was just trying to suggest what I use as a method of making the psychic chapters more powerful but still place limitations on them

To be honest, there's no need to give them extra psy ratings off the bat. Just encourage them to purchase them.

Ravens have always been more about forbidden lore and pursuit of knowledge than power spamming. That's more their possible forebearer's area. You certainly don't see accidents like the flesh-change, DOW novels aside. (Which incidentally, are less reliable as canon than a heretic's oath.)

Blood Ravens like to steal stuff.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but aren't Blood Ravens in Honor the Chapter now?

Forgive me if I'm wrong but aren't Blood Ravens in Honor the Chapter now?

Yes they are, and they are quite good. If you want to know about forbidden lore and such things. Also good for psykers.

Yes. Unfortunately, the really awesome thing about the Blood Ravens, namely their kleptomania, isn't detailed at all. If I want to play a BR, it's so I can steal the enemy.

They're also a fleet based chapter for some reason, which is directly contrary to the game fluff, so basically, what you have is something that is "sort of like" the blood ravens from the game, but it's definitely not them.

DoW 2 does describe them as Fleet Based since Aurelia (SP?) was lost to the Warp, which was where their Chapter Keep was.