Everyone seems to want to do Grey Knights as a bonus chapter custom rules and that's well and fine, however there is no real way to balance a GK in the deathwatch, so far as everyones posts have pretty much agreed, GK's would be too powerful.

So I started thinking about other obscure chapters that aren't mentioned as of yet and I came up with Imperial Fists, White Scars, Salamanders, Iron Hands, and Raven Guard. Well I figure all of those chapters will probably be represented at some point so I tried to think of ones that might not make it into a book and decided Blood Ravens might be a good start to that list.

Now unfortunately, not a whole lot is really known about the Blood Ravens other than they have a high level of psykers in their number and are very prone to corruption by chaos.

Organizationally the Blood Ravens Mirror most other chapters with a mix of all types of marines at their disposal. So we know there won't be any restrictions on specialties.

For starting character stat bonuses I am unsure of where to even begin other than librarians possibly starting with +1 or +2 Psy rating as a chapter bonus. Anyone have solid suggestions for this chapters starting stats?

Hopefully with enough help this post can be used to make a unified version between the posters of what we all feel is not only balanced but appropriate for the chapter, and if it gets to that point I will personally type the whole thing up and post it in a PDF for everyone to use.

This was done a while back.

A wonderful piece of work except for there is only one chapter psychic power without even a cost listed for learning the power. So I suppose it is a decent start.

Also their version did not account for the high number of psykers among the blood ravens.

They have a higher then average number of psykers, but are they individually more powerful than average? I don't know of anything that suggests the latter. Isn't +1 or 2 PSY rating too much in any case?

Fresnel said:

I agree - having an above average number of psykers does not mean those individual psykers need to be more powerful than others.

In a typical chapter a Librarian is a far, far less common sight than a Tactical Marine, yet there are no rules at character creation to represent that (fortunately!).

The best way to give them a bonus for using psyker powers to represent their higher than average number of Librarians would be a Wisdom bonus on creation.

Perhaps Psyniscience as a trained skill, that would represent a sensitivity to psychic phenomina

If you do a bit of lore digging on the Raven's you'll actually find they not only produce more psykers than most chapters, but each of those psykers is incredibly more gifted than other chapters.

This ties into hints and theories provied by GW and that the Thousand Sons are actually thier founding chapter. Which is also why the Blood Ravens seem so easy to be corrupted by Chaos, due to their sensitivity to the warp.

While I do agree +1 Psy Rating is almost too good I was trying to find ways to balance it perhaps using the corruption system.

So far no decent ideas have occured to me.

Warhawk X said:

Could you provide the source on that?

Warhamer40k wikia claims that The Blood Ravens Chapter possesses far more psykers than the other Space Marine Chapters , while Lexicanum claims they have two tactical squads consiting of Librarians only (which also translates to an above average number of them). Neither of them mention that those Librarians are in any way more powerful.

If I remember correctly there was also an above average psyker count in the Thousand Sons, if you're into that theory, so no contradiction here.

I think there is a Blood Raven BL novel or two - but I haven't read them. In any case BL novels aren't strict canon.

At the end of the day, any home brew character generation needs to be fair on the other players - you don't want one player even appearing to be favoured. Assuming the Thousand Son connection - then the Blood Ravens psykers should have a bonus. It needs to be within reasonable realm.

The twist about the Thousand Sons is that Magnus only fled into the Eye of Terror to escape the Space Wolves (who were in turn manipulated by Horus). So their corruption was result of a grand scheme by Tzeentch - rather than a willful betrayal. So they were harder to corrupt than Horus et al who joined Chaos unforced.

How about instead of a permanent psy rating increase only give them the increase when pushing? That'd model that the additional power comes hand in hand with greater risk.

I do like the idea of pushing making psy rating increase. As for the source of psykers being more powerful its actually on lexicanum and the 40k wiki that thier high end librarians under individual entries are said to be some of the most powerful psykers the imperium has seen second only to the Emperor himself.

While that is some lore fluff I do feel that the strong hint of Thousand Sons connection to the Blood Ravens shouldn't be entirely ignored which is why I opted to mention the psy rating being increased.

However there is still the matter that someone has touched the Blood Ravens as a chapter but did not quite finish them. Within the next week or so a friend and I should have the rest of the Psychic powers flushed out hopefully and I can post them here.

Fresnel said:

thats not special though, only 3 out of the 9 traitor primarchs turned to chaos of their own accord, Lorgar, Angron and Night haunter and the latter two only after horus convinced them to. Perturbo and Fulgrim were corrupted by deamon weapons, montarion's fleet got stuck in the warp, magnus the red as you say turned to chaos to escape the fury of Leman Russ and his space wolves, Horus was corrupted in the healing ritual on Davin and Alpharius and omegon never actually fell to chaos, they just turned traitor because they were convinced by the cabal that a horus victory would be better for the galaxy in general. It all stems from Lorgar really, the primarch that was raised by a religious institution.

Watcher_of_the_Dead said:

This has what to do with my thread on Blood Ravens sir?

*Shrug* i got side tracked in anycase there is some very good blood ravens stuff here: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=179&efcid=3&efidt=381340&efpag=0

I think the point involved the assumption that a Thousand Son successor Chapter would be easily corrupted. Imo this is not a given.

i never finished DoWII or its expansion.

I almost want to edit the chapter's insanity/curse now that we started talking corruption. If you glance at the link to the build that previous guy did the curse isn't even really linked to gameplay nor is it a terrible burdon on the player. Taking extra corruption points and seeing daemons of the warp and hearing voices of the damned that sort of thing that drives the blood ravens to chaos quickly would much better fit the profile.

I haven't read the other versions out there for the Blood Ravens, but this is What I came up with. The background is from Lexicanum.com

Blood Ravens

Homeworld

The Blood Ravens are a fleet-based chapter and have no official homeworld,
living on board of several Battle Barges and Strike Cruisers instead. Their Fortress Monastery is the Battle Barge Omnis Arcanum. Also, many
of the chapters' Marines were born on the planet Cyrene but it was destroyed by
an exterminatus order
issued by Captain Gabriel Angelos.

Recruits are drawn from planets ranging from the most primal feral world
to sprawling, violence-plagued hive worlds - the only common factor of the specific
worlds they recruit from being their heavy incidence of psyker mutations.

In the Dawn of War: Soulstorm campaign line, if played as the Space Marines
(Blood Ravens) and win, the epilogue notes that they were given their own
fortress-monastery on Kaurava
II in the Lands of Solitude, renamed Borealum in honour of Brother-Captain
Indrick Boreale, the
force commander who led the five Blood Raven companies to victory.2
However, in Dawn of War 2, it's mentioned that the Blood Ravens lost the
campaign in the Kaurava System.

Beliefs

The Blood Ravens' ignorance of their own origins has led the Chapter to value
information and knowledge greatly. They are known to seek out sites of lost
artefacts and ancient significance to deny them to the enemy. The Blood Ravens
rely heavily on their Librarians to keep the secret archives in order and
compile new records, but just as important as their custodial tasks is their
duty to seek out new information to bolster the archives and guide the Chapter
in its quest for knowledge. Librarians are highly regarded within the chapter,
there are even 2 whole tactical squad made up of librarians.

Geneseed

The Blood Raven geneseed seems to be stable, though the high
proportion of psykers in the Blood Ravens ranks has resulted in more regular
testing of the purity of their geneseed tithe. Thus far, there has been little
evidence of mutation. There is, however, a slight mutation in the Catalepsean
Node, which grants Blood Ravens perfect recall, but renders them unable to
experience R.E.M. Sleep.

Founding

The Blood Ravens do not know of their founding because all records were lost
early on in their history they call their unknown founder the 'Unknown
Primarch'.

Organisation

The Blood Ravens follow the standard organization laid down in the Codex Astartes. Due to
the higher proportion of Librarians within the Blood Ravens, it is not unknown
for Librarians to lead companies into battle.

The higher echelons of command within the Blood Ravens reflect the high
proportion of psykers within the Chapter
and many of the Secret Masters of the Chapter are themselves psykers. These
warriors obsessively study the ways of the enemy to better fight them.

NOTE: The only time the "secret masters" of the chapter are talked about are
during Chris Roberson's Dawn of War II book. This conflicts with canon
established in the Dawn of War II game where the Force Commander was promoted by
the Chapter Master. This is most likely who leads the chapter, though it is also
possible that the Secret Masters provide a council of sorts for the Chapter
Master.

Second Company

The Second Company, along with small elements from the other companies,
engaged the Necrons
army in a legendary battle beneath the Thur'Abis Plateau on Kronus. They emerged victorious after Captain Davian Thule successfully
planted a bomb deep within the Necron catacombs, which detonated and collapsed
the caverns on top of the still waking Necrons. In reference to this great
victory, the Second Company later added the Necron skull to their heraldry and
adopted the motto "Victory Over Death." 3 (confirmed in Dawn of War
2)

The Fated

The Blood Ravens 5th company is known as the 'Fated', and though the reasons
for this are obscure, it may go back to an incident recorded in the annals of
the Chapter's Librarium, but never spoken of openly. In M38 the entire 5th company was recorded as having been lost
in the Warp, but the truth of the matter may be by far darker. It is whispered
that one of the company Librarians was seduced by the lure of the ruinous
powers, and turned his fellow brethren to Chaos. This notion is by and large
dismissed by the Chapter today, but for unknown reasons the current members of
the Blood Ravens 5th Company wear badges of redemption, penitence and shame upon
their armor suits.[1] During the Aurelian Crusade Gabriel Angelos remarked the
fact the 5th company is only allowed a single librarian at any time.
This is strange since the chapter incorporates so many psykers including two
battle squads of the first company being made completely of
librarians.[5]

Ordo Psykana

The Ordo
Psykana is body with in the Blood Ravens that is made up entirely of
librarians most of which were recruited from the Scholastia Psykana. The order
maintains the beacons that are in the Sanctorium Aracanum which were set up by
the great father Azariah
Vidya.

Oct 23

Me:
Ok So thats the background here are the game rule.

Blood Ravens recieve the following adjustments
+5 to int and +5 to perception

Implants-Although the Blood-Ravens have a Catalepsean Node, due to an abnormality they do not recieve the benefit from it.

Demeanour- Exterminatus: Do to the Blood-Ravens ignorance of their chapter, and their unusually high amount of librarians the Ordo Hereticus has investigated and purged this chapter more then once. Black Templars and Blood-Ravens are typically at odds with each other for their extreme differences in the realm of psykers. Cohesion between the two chapters is always considered 1 less.

Chapter Advances xp Prereqs

Scholastic Lore: Ordo Psykana 200 Common lore:librarian/psyker or Forbidden Lore:Heresy
Lore Forbidden(Secret Masters) 200 Scholatic Lore:Ordo Psykana
Paranoia 500
Common Lore: Librarians 200
Total Recall 800 int 30
Invocation 400(non-psyker marines of blood-ravens can use this ability to reduce opponents psychic rating by 1.
Hatred (Ordo Hereticus:Puritans) 500 typically this hatred is a concealed one.
Frenzy 400
Mental Rage 800 Frenzy
Wisdom of the Ancients 1,500 int40

Solo Mode ability

Remarkable Insight-

Blood-Ravens dedication to knowledge has given them wisdom beyond their years. When searching for clues or inspecting an area the Blood-Raven gets +10 to any skill with int.
Improvement-At rank 3 Blood-Ravens get +20 and are granted the Scholastic Lore: Imperium.

Squad Mode Ability-

Deep Strike Initative-
cost 2 half action.

Blood-Ravens do not have a home world. Instead they use a fleet to deploy their squads where able. This has made Blood-Ravens exceptionally keen at deep strike maneuvers, and being surrounded by enemy is common. When a Blood-Raven calls this mode all squad members in 30m of eachother can no longer be pinned. Any cohesion lost due to ambush or sniper fire is reduced by 1.
Improvement-At rank 4 squad memebers also gain an extra reaction.

I think this is a fair representation based on the other chapters in deathwatch.

Click here to repl

Warhawk X said:

Okay, I assume that you want to implement Blood Ravens chapter traits into DEATHWATCH, right? This alone already denies the possibility of including some rules stuff on their affinity to corruption because of one simple fact: the Deathwatch is an Inquisitorial branch and therefore would never take a labile Marine, and the Blood Ravens would never promote one of those to join the Deathwatch. That would raise questions, y'know.

Keep in mind that only proven Battle-brothers are promoted to take on the black armour, many of them veterans of decades of warfare against the Xeno. During that time an individual Marine's strengths and weaknesses should have become relatively obvious to his brothers which is why nobody with the slightest sign of impurity would ever gain access to the ranks of the Deathwatch.

Stick to the knowledge stuff, drop the corruption affinity.

Nonetheless you could FIGHT corrupted Blood Ravens... That'd be a cool adventure...

Aajz_Solari said:

Keep in mind there are differant levels of corruption, and there are some radical Inquisitors out there, many in the Ordo Xenos that believe in fighting fire with fire and using heretical tech.

Aajz_Solari said:

I think your forgetting that the Blood Ravens are veteran Tomb Hunters of Necron Tomb worlds, and have engaged the xenos in several different sectors. Additionally DoW II campaign specifically states and talks about Sergent Cyrus of the Blood Ravens BEING IN THE DEATHWATCH.

So not only have the Blood Ravens sent members of their chapter to the Deathwatch the Deathwatch has never questioned the chapter or its loyalties.

Warhawk X said:

Not yet, they aren't - as of 'present day' in Deathwatch (817.M41), the Necrons have not yet been officially encountered by the Imperium, and will not be for another 80 years (the Sanctuary 101 incident, 897.M41).

Wow you know the timelines even, have a hard enough time following all the fluff with out putting into strict timelines. I have probably crossed several Millenium in timelines in my campaign with out even knowing it now that you point that out, fortunatly my players are equally ignorant of the issue so works out fine.

As we all know, universal time doesn't exist. There is only local time.