In the Death Watch rulebook it says:

"Magnitude 25 horde can make 2 ranged attacks. Any additional hits from sustained fire can be applied to any eligible target."

So it is clear that if a horde is firing weapons with semi/full auto capabilities they can produce multiple hits in one attack.

When it comes to damage, the book says:

"Magnitude 25 horde armed with autopistols will cause 3d10+2 damage with its ranged attacks."

So my question is now: If the horde hits with multiple bullets from semi/full auto, does each "bullet" cause 3d10+2 damage?

If the horde is extremely lucky in the right condition the result could be 6 hits of 3d10+2 damage each, just using autopistols! And no dodging a horde attack mind you.

Is there something I have missed in this?

Seems I missed that you can dodge ranged attacks made by a horde.

So if the horde hits you with 6 "bullets" you better get a good dodge roll!

Looks like you figured things out.

Just remember that those 6 autogun hits actually represent, potentially, dozens of rounds hitting.

ItsUncertainWho said:

And just remember that a horde with autopistols having 5 degrees of success needs to roll very well and have very good stats and/or have an easy shot at the PC.

Well, if a Space Marine is dancing out in the open just a few meters shy from a few dozen of folks with autopistols, he can get shot.

Alex

Happened to me. Opened a door (well, I ripped it open with my trusty servo arm) only to face a small horde all armed with autopistols. I was the only viable target at that time. If not for the fact that I could claim cover......

Hordes with autofire weapons are to be feared. Compared to other ranged hordes they represent a much much higher lethality. Once more the autofire rules are a tad overpowered compared to the single shot variant.

Sister Callidia said:

Actually, I wonder how many hordes are really armed with autopistols throughout. Rather it should be mostly stubguns. One can use a rule similar to the rules for stormtroopers in Oblivion's Edge instead: one ranged attack per turn can be made using autopistols, the rest will be stubguns, etc.

Alex

If not for autopistols, what about autoguns? Also pretty common and the backbone of many PDF forces. Those would be even worse.

Sister Callidia said:

Autoguns? I thought if even the Imperial Guards wield Lasguns how can a PDF afford the ammunition of autoguns? In Final Sanction, the rebel hordes have stub rifles of the non-automatic kind.

Anyway, I must admit when I hear auto-pistols, I rather think of hive gangers and recidivists. :-)

Alex

Well those guys in Final Sanction were a bunch of agri world hicks.

Autoguns were pretty much standard armament for renagade guard units, I thinks it's assumed that they are likely to have started as PDF units.

For PDF pressumable it's easier to resupply because they little complicated logistics and probably don't fire them as often. Also it depends on the planet, a sh!t hole, near fuedal, agri world like Avalos probably has to import proper weapons (like for it's PDF) so lasguns make sense, but they probably had enough infrastructure to make their own crappy rifles that much of populus has. A slightly more advanced planet might be able make, and arm it's own PDF with autoguns but couldn't make las weapons. On the other hand there are going to be a number of planets whose PDF are armed with black powder weapons and the hope they have nothing worth attacking for.

"Invent" your own weapon if you are not completely happy, maybe a kind of SMG that are as bad(Or good) as autopistols.

ak-73 said:

I still find it hard to believe that after 3 iterations of the rules (DH, RT and now DW) that Lasguns do NOT have a Full Automatic mode of fire.

I think that such is intentional. Sci Fi has always pictured the lasgun/phasor/blaster as a slow firing weapon that says pew pew or a similar sound. Only barbarians use rapid firing weapons that say Dakkadakkadakka.

So the blame is on many years of literature saying Lasguns do not use rapid fire. That and the fact that autofire is so awfully effective in this game.

Sister Callidia said:

While I would agree with your assessment, in 40K there are many novels / examples that would suggest otherwise. Take the Gaunt's Ghosts novels as a huge contributor to this.

If you want to reference the TT game (which is by no means an accurate representation of the RPG game or the fluff) lasguns do have rapid fire just like a boltgun does.

I was just surprised to find the inferior autogun as having this mode and not the lasgun. I also have a huge IG TT army that I played with for the last 15 years... and despite rules changes and new codices for them... the lasgun has always had the ability to fire on fully automatic.

After all... how else do you expect the IG to hit anything?

Here is another example from the fluff to support my confusion about the matter:

Specifications of the Cadia Pattern Lasgun
(as per The Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer, Damocles Gulf Edition)

Service designation: Standard M-G short pattern lasgun/lasrifle
Weight: 2.3kg
Length: 900mm
Magazine type: 19 megathule range (rechargable)
Type of fire: Single shot or fully automatic
Rate of fire (cyclic): 220 shots per minute
Shot intensity: low to high
Sights: adjustable, back and front sights with optional laser sight/integral optics

According to the The Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer, the book that ALL IG soldiers are required to carry with them at all times, the gun doesn't even have a semi-automatic mode of fire.

In the RPG, I would simply suggest moving the ROF around.

Instead of S / 3 / - I would instead recommend S / - / 3 just to keep things consistent.

SpawnoChaos said:

To be honest though, most weapons with SA rate of fire wouldn't it listed in the spec, it's just single shot used repeatedly.

For ages, I was like 'lasguns don't need full auto', 'pro's use semi auto' etc. But now bolters have FA AND ridiculous damage I've totally changed my mind, yeah go for it. A guardsmen with a decent load out, say 10 clips (which apparently isn't uncommon on soldiers today) is still going to be shoot for a very long time with a RoF of say 6 and they could still recharge them in a Chimera.

In the groups I GM we changed lasguns RoF to s/3/6 all the way back in the first DH campaign.

Giving lasguns full auto would make them more a weapon of choice with the current rules. So I would be fully supportive to that rule. Of course that brings us back to the issue of hordes with automatic weapons.

Those are nasty......
Glad that I am playing a Techmarine who can quickly add more armor, Toughness and Fortifications!

Sister Callidia said:

It doesn't need to be all las-guns have full auto either (which would leave a nice SA generic lasgun for NPC's as FA weapons are a bit of a player killer, in DH at least). I mean, it's not like any of us (or most of the characters) know what makes a las weapon fully automatic so it's not we can say for certain it couldn't happen. It's just a shame in the I:HB they were so ready to use some of the widely used IG las-guns with basic stats.