Here's an interesting rule problem my encountered the other day. Our Devastator activated Strongpoint to call out targets, namely a Hive Tyrant, bearing down on our position. The Devastator was shot at and naturally wanted to dodge and there began the discussion. Does dodge count as movement in regards to Strongpoint, or any other ability that requires the Space marine to remain stationary. Nonetheless, the Devastator stood and took the blast and continued shooting, and was killed right at the end of the combat - if nothing else to keep the game moving.

In the RAW Dodge has the subtype: Movement which seems to suggest that if you dodge you are making a move action, though as a reaction, and thus loosing the ability of Strongpoint.

I'd be interested to see how others read this rule.

Both from my interpretation of the rules and my understanding of the intent behind the 'no movement' rule I'd say dodge should be considered movement in this scenario.

Look at pg 238 under the Dodge description and in the Subtype it gives it as Movement. So yes, for the the purposes of Strongpoint it would be considered a Movement.

That was my point to the group, but there was still a lot of discussion around the ability - more to do with the unfairness of being unable to dodge. I guess there needs to be a negative effect to the awesome bonuses you can get with this ability.

I disagree with the sentiment so far. The rule for Strongpoint is that the mode ends when the "Center moves". As in moves from his current square/position to another square/position. The subype "movement" does not actually require a character to move; it merely means that an immobile creature can't use actions with the subtype "movement".

A character does not have to move from his current square/position to another square/position in order to dodge an attack. If that was intended, then the rules would state that a successfully dodge requires the character to move a number of meters up to his agility bonus or simply one meter. Case in point, dodging an area attack. To dodge an area attack the character has to actually move from his current square/position to another square/position outside the area of attack. Otherwise, there is no movement required to dodge a bullet or in this case a glob of spit.

Dan.

Alternately, Dodging cancels Overwatch, so you could apply the same standard to Strongpoint.

I think the benefits of the ability seem justify losing your dodge- and Radomo's comment sealed the deal for me. If ducking ruins your chance to watch a space and provide cover fire, then why wouldn't it do the same for the guy acting as 'spotter'? In some cases, gameism takes hold, especially in the mode abilities, which are totally gamey to start with.

Charmander said:

The difference is that in Overwatch the PC is spotting and shooting out of turn; in Strongpoint the PC is only spotting out of turn.

This is what I imagine a marine in strongpoint doing. Minus the tank.

He may be spotting out of turn, but he's spotting the the entire duration of the round, for all of the teams shots.

Additionally Stalwart defense is another one of those "don't move" abilities and strictly states the character may not move, and may not dodge, however can parry... so that's a deal sealer for me, anything where you cannot move should then also negate your ability to dodge.

Hindsights twenty twenty but did anyone ever think maybe the devastator marine should be getting the bonuses and attacks while someone spots for him? Or did he just not realize that his goal and task in life is to shoot things really really well? Like rules question aside that dood totally died for not making the tac marine spot for him lol.

CptCaine said:

This pretty much matches my interpretation of how this ability ought to work in regards to the Dodge ability. I'd say that as long as the centre does not leave his position he is still allowed to Dodge and maintain the ability. If he moves from his location as part of a Dodge (for example to get out of an Area of Effect) then the Strongpoint would be canceled.