I really can't wrap my head around this little issue... Does a Marine inflict a point of magnitude damage onto a Horde if he only gets a standard success or one DoS, or is a minimum of two DoS required to do anything to a Horde?

One hit for a standard success. One additional hit for every 2 degrees of success.

For example, you hit with a melee attack scoring a 45 against a target number of 65.

You score 1 hit as normal, and score a second hit for the 2 degree of success (65-45=20 or 2 degrees of success)

Against a horde 60, at a decent WS of say 50, after point buys lets look at the numbers

50 to hit normally. +40 to hit due to horde size alone + any other modifiers (Frenzy, chapter abilities).

This means that on a regular roll to hit of say, 45, will be a hit, plus two degrees of success. Marines specialized in close combat usually have ways of attacking multiple times per combat. This can add up to ~3-15 magnitudes of damage from attacks. Considering a normal bolter is regularly going to do 5 damage(4 hits from full auto, 1 explosive), this is not too bad against hordes. Not to mention if the close combat involves wielding two weapons.

Edit: Remember force weapons also deal 1 additional hit automatically. Because power weapons generally have better penetration and damage than a horde creatures armor and toughness, this usually entails an additional point of magnitude damage per round. Say the weapons penetrations and + damage do not automatically deal a wound, remember that it gets ~ a +10 damage from the space marines strength- easily auto inflicting a wound, and thus a point of magnitude damage.

Tidomann said:

Edit: Remember force weapons also deal 1 additional hit automatically. Because power weapons generally have better penetration and damage than a horde creatures armor and toughness, this usually entails an additional point of magnitude damage per round. Say the weapons penetrations and + damage do not automatically deal a wound, remember that it gets ~ a +10 damage from the space marines strength- easily auto inflicting a wound, and thus a point of magnitude damage.

Really? I don't recall seeing the Power Field quality (which, as we all know, makes the weapon cause an additional hit to a Horde) on any force weapon. Has this been FAQ'd or something? o.O

Rhazagal said:

Tidomann said:

Edit: Remember force weapons also deal 1 additional hit automatically. Because power weapons generally have better penetration and damage than a horde creatures armor and toughness, this usually entails an additional point of magnitude damage per round. Say the weapons penetrations and + damage do not automatically deal a wound, remember that it gets ~ a +10 damage from the space marines strength- easily auto inflicting a wound, and thus a point of magnitude damage.

Really? I don't recall seeing the Power Field quality (which, as we all know, makes the weapon cause an additional hit to a Horde) on any force weapon. Has this been FAQ'd or something? o.O

I'm not aware of an errata question on the subject. My guess is that he is extrapolating from the last line of the Force Weapon description which states they are not destroyed by a power weapon's field.

The rub with melee is that a typical scenario is (assume power weapon):

1.) Assault marine charges: 1 attack doing 2 to 7ish Mag

2.) Everyone else blasts said horde to tiny bits.

3.) Assault marine sighs and charges again.

If they get the chance to Multi attack w/ two power weapons, melee is comparable to ranged (although they lose the easy +20-30 from full auto/range).

Guys, he pretty clearly meant "Power" instead of "Force" given the context of the paragraph. He immediately starts talking about how Power Weapons (the category granting the extra hit) tend to have such a damage and penetration boost that every extra hit pretty much translates into an extra damage to magnitude.

Yes yes sorry! I mean power weapons! The rule is listed on page 359, Under "Melee"

Melee Weapons with the Power Field Quality inflict one additional hit.