Reading the rules for the horde, the sheer quantity make it so melee attacks cannot be parried or dodged unless otherwise noted. However, when a horde uses ranged attacks, there is no mention of how dodge should be applied.

It seems like characters can dodge an insane amount of fire with a single dodge. It makes taking fire warriors in smaller quantities less appealing. For example, a squad of 12 individual firewarriors have enough bang for their buck and can still hurt space marines. However, when in a horde of twelve, they only get 2 attacks with only an increase of 1d10 damage per hit. This is appealing for hordes which weapons have difficulty dealing damage to a space marine, but the pulse rifle with an average roll of 2d10= 10 would just be enough to be fully negated by the space marines toughness and armor. It seems that a much greater threat from fire warriors comes from not hording them.

Does dodge work the same way against hordes as it does against normal fire then? horde, only capable of single shot weapons have one of it's shots completely dodged by 1 dodge reaction, as well as any semi/full auto fire negating an extra hit with each degree of success?

Has anyone played or found that hording powerful enemies (ones that can wound space marines on average with their own stats/weapons) seem to downplay the threat or ability to deal damage?

as far as I know (and play) there is no dodge vs hordes.

As per RAW I believe you can as the rulebook makes it specific that the no dodge/parry rule applies only to melee.

So how do you handle dodging horde's ranged attack? Unless stated otherwise you are supposed to treat a horde as a single creature. Therefore you dodge a horde's attack as if it was coming from a non-horde npc. The only difference then is in the extra damage of the horde. And that hordes can't aim.

Alex

As regarding hordes and their various attacks.

In ranged combat, they get a number of attacks equal to their magnitude divided by ten (rounding down). These attacks can be dodged.

In melee combat, they get only one attack against targets in melee with them (unless they have swift/lightning attack/two weapons). This attack cannot be dodged or parried.

The reasoning seems to be that the horde can still overwhelm you at range by just making multiple attacks, thus making it impossible to dodge through brute force if it focuses, but they simplified the mechanic for melee so there's less dice rolling.

Hotfoot said:

Yep, this is RAW.

Kind of an additional question.

How is it a Mob of 20 only gets 2 ranged attacks? I get the +2D10 damage is for the other people, but it seems weird that a mob of 20 firing at a kill team can only, at best, threaten 2 members. Is it supposed to be 2 attacks / kill team member (like it is in melee when they have multiple attacks). How game breaking would it be to rule that way?

Delahunt said:

Consider the following: yes a Horde gets 2 ranged attacks (to use your example); however, because they are armed with lasguns they fire semi-auto bursts which can score an additional hit per two degrees of success. Suddenly each attack has the potential to do up to three hits (the RoF of a lasgun on semi-auto) that can be assigned to a single target or three different targets. Each hit still does +2d10 damage. This is why even a Horde with magnitude 20 armed with heavy stubbers, hellfire lasguns, or other weapons capable of semi-auto or - better yet - full-auto fire can present a credible threat to a Space Marine.

Delahunt said:

Also please note, unless I'm interpreting what you're asking incorrectly, a "mob of 20" is not accurate to what the Horde rules state. You measure a Hordes value in Magnitude, which could represent any number of enemies.

A Magnitude 20 Horde could represent 20 enemies, or it could represent 500.

It could even represent fewer than 20, and just has increased Magnitude to represent the lethality of the enemy (their armor, weapons, determination to fight on, etc.)

Bear in mind that when a character successfully dodges a ranged horde attack, that doesn't necessarily mean he's dodged all of the hits. It's just that what is hitting him isn't going to do significant damage.

SpawnoChaos said:

Firstly The hordes magnitude is not the number of enemies, but rather the morale that they have at the beginning of combat. This fact is also in accordance with the fact that their premission says that hordes get an additional 5 magnitude the longer you are engaging new hordes in the same opporation. This represents them getting to know the group and their tactics better.

I read the bonus dice to damage as avariable for the hordes current magnitude/10. As is its # of attacks representing them becoming disorganised with the damage they recieve, just like squad mode for the DW team.

Wow, thanks. A lot of good answers, and I had totally forgot about Full auto and semi-auto weaponry. It makes a lot more sense now.

Thanks

JamieBHook said:

This all makes sense, and we agree on most points.

However, I must have missed where it says in the rulebook that a Hordes Magnitude increases as the mission continues. Reference page by chance?

SpawnoChaos said:

It's a Final Sanction only rule. It's because the rebels gain more and more control of Lordsholm. It's not a general rule.

Alex

ak-73 said:

It's a good idea to keep these tactics in mind as a GM overall, I find; if the KT is in enemy territory or in a FS like situation where the enemy is gaining ground and territory it helps show that the enemy is counter-attacking or is organizing to try and stop the KT.