ejacobs said:

Here I will just post it again. Take what you want from it. I have done 3 sessions with my brother in law that is using a character based off this. Since I limited him to Melee and Psychic powers he has either done exceptionally well or really bad so I will probably go back to the drawing board or wait until the offical one comes out and compair.

This is what I came up with I relied heavily on wikis and lexicanum for the background. Feel free to use or change this as you wish to fit your games. With the exception of gernades in certain situations I limited the Grey Knights to strictly melee from my experiances playing them on the table top minitures though that was some time ago so im sure those rules are changes, but in my mind a Grey Knight uses his forcepike more often then not. I used the Librarian specialty for advance ment since all Grey Knights with the exception of a Chaplain are psykers and basicly the same.

GreyKnights do not have any affiliation to thier previous Chapter, esentially they have been mind wiped by the Schola Prognium. GreyKnight Conditioning Grants this Bonus to stats instead
+5 ws +5 will power
The Following are Grey Knight Codex Abilities- Meaning simular to Deathwatch abilities since you will not be getting any of those. There is Grey Knight Chapter abilities as well further down page.

Solo Mode Ability-DaemonHunter
Grey Knight channles his psychic power into his Nemesis Force Pike and wields it with leathal ability against a Daemon.+10 to all attacks made with the Pike vs a Daemon, The Daemon engaged will not break from combat with the Grey Knight until he or the Grey Knight are Dead.

Squad Mode Ability-Righteous Charge
Grey Knight can channel his energy to charge his foes in a blur of speed. Only able to use the frist round of combat a Grey Knight can charge a foe 4x his typical sprinting distance in a single round and make a Melee attack with Nemesis Force Pike.

Skills- REMOVE the Following skills from the deathwatch sheet
Concealment
Forbiden Lore Xenos
Cipher-Chapter Runes
Deceive
Disguise
Gamble
Silent Move
Common Lore: Deathwatch

ADD the following Skills
Cipher-Ordo Malleus
Common Lore: Grey Knights
Forbidden Lore: Malleus
Invocation
Psyniscience
Tracking (+10 when tracking daemons/daemon hosts)

Add the following Talents
Slayer Of Daemons
Strong Minded
Unshakable Faith

Power Armor- Do not roll on the table on pg 162 instead this is your power armors abilities

Liber Daemonica, A copy of the sacred text is infused on your power armor granting you immunity to corruption.

There are no specialties with in the Grey Knights, Use the Librarian Specialtiy for now with the following changes
Choose only 1 power from the Librarian specialty use the following in addition
Call Item(Nemesis Force Pike Specific) pg 165 DH
Malleus HammerHand pg 129 Ascension-hands become powerfull deamon beatdown weapons
DaemonsBane pg 131 Ascension-banish daemonic entity
His Will Be Done pg 132(Daemon Specific)-#allies = to will power bonus get free attack on target daemon.

Starting Equipment remains mostly the same except Grey Knights are only allowed to use Melee weapons. I might make the exception of a gernade when dealing with a horde or orcs or tyranid but no range weapons. Instead you are given a Nemesis Force Pike and a powersword for secondary weapon.

Nemesis Force Pike-1d10+7(double strength bonus, triple vs daemons) + psy rating to attack and damage roll. Is considered Sanctified,Powered,and a Relic.

Additional Restrictions- Grey Knights can not enter squad mode with a Deathwatch member until they meet following prerequisits-
Common Lore: Deathwatch
Forbidden Lore: Xenos

Another GreyKnight can go into squad mode with another GreyKnight however.

Here is the GreyKnight Specific Squad Mode

Malleus Malificarium-All Grey Knights in support range are immune to knockdown(from anything less then a tacticle nuke), +10 to all Melee attacks and double damage to daemons and warp entities.
Improvement:If battle brother of rank 4 or greater present +20 to all melee attacks and triple damage to daemons and warp entities.

Additional Information.

Deathwatch and the Grey Knights are kind of black and white when it comes to tactics. Think of the Deathwatch as a unit of special forces and the Grey Knights as the Crusaders of old charging into battle. This coupled with the mind cleansing techniques of the Ordo Malleus make the Grey Knights alot more of a striaght forward combatant, refusing to use range weapons, stealth, or any kind of deceit to defeat their enemies.
Of the three chamber militants of the Inquisiton, Adaptus Soratas/Storm Troopers, Deathwatch and Grey Knights being the three, The Grey Knights have the most singular and specific purpose. Rarly are they sent into a situation that is not dire and invovling chaos and daemons. When used in this campaign they will be part of the Tyrant Star Cabal which the Deathwatch Characters are part of as well. A cabal is a mix of Ordoses that have a unique and singular goal in which they pool their resources

Grey Knight Solo Mode Ability

Righteous Zeal-Same as Black Templars
I know its not original but its in the book so adds legitimacy.

Grey Knight Chapter Advances
Name Xp Prereq
Interrogation 200
Interrogation +10 200 Interrogation
Interrogation +20 200 Interrogation +10
Hatred(Daemons) 500
Frenzy 400
Mental Rage 800 Frenzy
Peer(Ordo Malleus)500
Good Reputation(Ordo Malleus) 800 Peer(Ordo Malleus)
*Word of the Emperor 1,500 Rank 2

*As per Ascension DH book Daemonsbane:Word of the Emperor.

Just my two cents: Since Aegis armor is supposed to represent the pinnacle quality of mass-produced power armor and given that the GK's headquarters is in such close proximity to Mars, I'd feel inclined to give it and extra point of armor on all locations to reflect this.

Also, there needs to be a trait that reflects their power (I forget what it's called) that makes GK's both difficult to see AND damaging to daemons.

ak-73 said:

I just finished reading the Grey Knights omnibus, from what I gathered I dont think anyone outside the Ordo Malleus has ever heard of the Grey Knights, even the sisters of battle fire on them in the first book thinking them to be of the Traitor Legions!

The Exorcists Chapter of Space marines are the only known sucessor chapter of the Grey Knights and they are one of the many chapters that conribute marines to Deathwatch, but they dont talk about their past and the founding of the Chapter is a mystery.

Check out "Heroes of the Space Marines" short story "headhunted"

Exoviper said:

You could probably add that instead of letting them take a Librarian power. On another part of this forum somone said they should only have a PR of 1 not 3 so that might be a change to make also.

Eh... I really hate to be the negative guy in this thread but as much as I love and respect the Grey Knights, I do not believe that they have a place in Deathwatch (figuratively and literally). The Grey Knights belong to the Ordos Malleus and their chapter is made solely for the purpose of destroying heretics, traitor marines, and Daemons, not Xenos like the Deathwatch is meant for. Grey Knights, in my opinion, would be way too over-powered seeing as they are slightly psychic and all of their gear is technically sanctified. Though the Deathwatch may battle the forces of chaos (depending on what your campaigns involve) they are meant to kill aliens and a Grey knight just doesn't fit in with the Ordos Xenos. The Exorcist chapter, who come from the Grey knights, does volunteer their Marines and would be more suitable for this (despite their limited history).

But overall, however y'all choose to run your campaigns is how you choose to run them.

I co-GM a game and the other GM lets me run a Devastator Grey Knight. His back story is he is slightly psychic, Like Alaric, and come from the Purgator squads. His demeanor is gregarious and since he didn't "fit" the overall mood of traditional Grey Knights he was "lent" to the Deathwatch.

This works with our group as the GM and I our the only ones familiar with the 40k game and my Grey Knight is not the up-close & personal kind of Grey Knight that the canon is use to. And since so far we have not faced any Chaos forces the armour bonuses haven't come into play yet.

ChaosCrusader13 said:

Thank you for being the first but I need to second this, Grey Knights keep getting posted and the thing is they are just TOO GOOD to be in Deathwatch. If anything you cannot give them a wrist mounted storm bolter to start.

Okay, for a minute just suppose you wanted to, each member in the deathwatch starts with 0 Reknown, and here is why, you havent killed any friggen xenos to get respected they aren't going to let you run around with crazy ass weaponry just to powergame a grey knight.

IF any chapter were to start with psy rating 1 that was FAIR to put into Deathwatch I would nominate the Blood Ravens, but instead id give psy rating one to all members of the chapter and +2 psy rating to a librarian, because the canon states their chapter produces the most powerful psykers next tot he emperor himself.

Lastly the rules for creating your own chapters are just around the corner and maybe people should consider making a Grey Knights chapter for dark heresy.

Just as an aside, not every game of Deathwatch has to start at 0 renown and the rank 1 with 1k xp.

Its entirely reasonable to use advanced values. In fact, that would probably be the big thing, is to say a GK character has say, 20k xp (as a part of just being a GK), and 1k to spend.

While the Gray Knights don't send representatives to join the Deathwatch, its still not impossible for them to work together (just almost). I would probably only consider it in a very high powered game (even for Space Marines) considering the might of the Gray Knights and the kind of threat that would be required for the Inquisition to bring in both of them.

It could probably make for a very interesting story though, a threat to large that both the DW, the GK and the Inquisition sends their best and brightest to face it. One could have the players make three groups of characters (one DH group, one DW group and one GK group with adapted DW rules). Then you let them see the action from the viewpoint of the different groups, mixing the heavy action of Space Marine combat with the more sinister and sneaky dealings of the Throne Agents. Each group feeling the effects of what the other groups have done, and affecting each other.

Would be an interesting project... wonder what kind of story would be needed to excuse the inclusion of both the DW and the GK

Honn said:

Within a single unit? None at all.

I don't know if this a biproduct of a certain one man army way of thinking but there's no point mixing a squad with Deathwatch and Grey Nights. If there's demon's you send an entire squad of grey knights, if there's a specific xeno objective a DW kill team. There's nothing to be gained from mixing them together other than having half of the squad underprepared for either menace.

The best that they can hope for is undisclosed Xeno threat that's summoning deamons when a DW team and GK unit might see each across a battlefield.

Even if a single group was required to do the foot work, carefully investigating and pooling their knowledge, that wouldn't even be the SM's, that's exactly what the Inquisition is for, you want to decide the nature of the enemy before you comit your best troops rather than spread them as thinly as possible.

I agree. The Inquisition would see no point in mixing GK and DW, they would probably even consider it dangerous considering the amount of forbidden knowledge each of the organisations have. Better not concentrate all that in one place...The point was rather to think of a reason for both the DW and the GK to become involved in the same grand scheme of events.

I guess the Eldar would be a good place to start. Eldar go after Slaanesh, Deathwatch go after Eldar, Gray Knights go after the Deamons that appear during the fighting

I don't know though, the Empire's resources aren't limitless. If one branch of the Holy Ordo was encountering a mixed field (like in the Reach) the local authorities may call on the other Ordos for assistance. It doesn't seem out of the question to me for a member of one branch of an Ordo Militant to aid another Ordo Militant branch. Just because there are demons in the reach doesn't mean the the Ordo Malleus has a spare squad of Knights to deploy to a sector, maybe they only have a senior advisor to send to help provide guidance.

My main resource for this is gut feel though (and a little inspiration from Purge the Unclean, as wasn't a single DW marine dispatched to recover a Liber Daemonicum?).

But as for including one as a PC, I'd personally not do it for two main reasons- one, the power level and the whole concept that their gene seed is from the Emperor himself (might as well play a custode), and two (and a bigger deal to me), the GKs are mind wiped where their personal memories and personality are scrubbed away in order to make them loyal to the Emperor and help make them immune to demonic influences. Makes for an interseting dungeon crawl or Universal Soldier seqel, but hardly a group of character's I'd want to play. That said, to each your own/ymmv/etc.

As for what you'd give them in DW...
Aegis armor would give +30 to psychic saves, +30 versus demonic powers (given that a GK would have a high WP, this should make the character immune to low level psychic attacks) give enemies with the demonic trait a -30 or so to notice the Knights due to the Shrouding (maybe require a stealth roll of some kind to make it feel right), give them a Fear rating of maybe 2 versus demons (something they're not immune to, lesser demons should not want to attack a GK) or giving them the ability to help disrupt them (I swear there was a rule concerning sending demons back into the warp by loosening their grip on reality but I can't reacall where it is).

From the Nemisis Force Weapon I'd give an additional +20 to strength while wielding it, make it a power weapon, and then if your psy level is high enough make it a force weapon as well

EDIT: And for what it's worth, Grey Knights are supposed to be discussed in Daemon Hunter for Dark Heresy sometime next Spring (Amazon says April).

Charmander said:

Nope, he was sent to recover the Luminus, they didn't even know about the book. In general I really doubt that a single Marine from any chapter would be sent as an advisor to another chapter, expecially not one of the Gray Knights. Also, the Deathwatch might be primarily for hunting Xenos, but they are by no means new to the field of deamonslaying themselves. They don't need an advisor.

Of course if everyone in the game is fine with in, then just go for it. Strictly speaking from a fluff persepective here

Face Eater said:

The now extinct Yu'vath in Rogue Trader (and DH: Radical's Handbook) would have made interesting historical enemies for a joint DW-GK operation. A warp wielding xenos breed. Creating hell worlds from channeling human suffering and warp magic. And other threats might not be clear cut. It's not like it's always obvious if a problem is being caused by xenos, heretechnology or chaos.

Honn said:

So the Ordo Malleus just forgot they gave this lady the book and let someone else go get if for them? Honestly don't know- didn't run the adventure, got my character's ass kicked by a bunch of mutant cat things, but it seems suspect to me.

All I'm saying is nothing seems to preclude it, except maybe pride and personalities of people involved. Rare? Probably, but then again isn't that the point of PCs?

Not even sure why I'm debating the point to be honest, I certainly have no desire to let GKs into my campaign fluff or no

Adorjin had been gone for so long most of the information about her had been lost. In Purge the Inquisition has no idea of the book, only the Dark Eldar and the Query knows about it. If they had known they would not have sent a couple of lowly acolytes handle it considering it happened just above Scintilla, the HQ of the Inquisition in the sector. The Ordo Maleuss would probably have gone to great length to get it back.

Considering how different the GK work from any other chapter, cooperation seems unlikly (and as far as I know there is no mention of it ever happening).

And I'm arguing because I'm home sick and have nothing better to do

As I said there could be and probably has been times when the DW and GK are in the same theater of operations, perhaps even the same battlefield, but there's no reason to have them work in the same team, in fact it goes against logic.

It's like filming the fake moon landings in the same hanger that they store the alien space ship from Roswell, sure it's top secret and you are going way out of your way to keep it secret but why run the risk of blowing both secrets at the same time.

Especially when there's a very visible group of specialists that can work in any advisory capacity in the Inquisition. Who are there specifically to investigate this stuff while the top secret SM special forces keep their heads down.

Finally this is militiary sci-fi which means resources are deployed in military fashion. As powerful as a GK they are deployed in squads because that's whats needed. You wouldn't send a single GK in the hope that he doesn't meet more deamonic power than he can deal with.

There is one possible scenario where the Deathwatch and the Grey Knights might fight side by side!

The Enslavers! ( wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Enslaver )

Would make for one hell of an epic scenario.

Face Eater said:

I think the DW core setup is an example of a theater in which DW and GK are there together, working towards similar goals. It's mentioned that a 'classified' number of GKs are deployed in the Reach.

As for resources being deployed in a good method, I'd beg to differ; they are often deployed in a poorly thought out strategy that often results in the guys on the ground getting the short end of the stick. Often times politics has entered the field at that point and it's not the military per se making these calls, but you gotta admit 40k is full of politics, self serving nobles, and people doing things a certain way just because that's how someone 1000 years ago did it (and full of examples of commanders on the ground dealing with the crap situation their superiors have put them in). And often times groups are deployed not because it's what's needed, but it's because it's all you've got.

I also don't see why two secret organizations, or two teams of special forces, would not work together given the right circumstances. And you can't say their existence is a total secret, given that the upper eschelons of society know that they can request their assistance . If the scribes of the Imperium know they exist, you can bet the enemy kows they exist, so really who are they keeping the secret from? Sure you keep their activities, numbers, methods, etc. secure, but their existence is known, if not well.

I totally agree that Inquisitors and their cadre are perfectly capable of serving as advisors, and to work on investigations, etc., while the DW and GKs do the heavy hitting and enforcing. A lot of your points make pretty good sense, I just don't think it kills the notion of the teams working together. Being rare and special is a cornerstone of many RPG stories. You just have to come up with a good enough reason- threat based or political.

Here is a thought- watch station Midael is near the hadex anomoly, an area ripe with chaos. GKs go into subdue a threat related to something in/around the watch station. DW goes in to fing out why no one has reported in a while. The two meet, tension builds 'cause the ordos don't agree. the GKs want to go hunt down the source of the taint, which may be the DW marine, and the DW wants to go in because he's one of theirs, and they don't want some other chapter doing the job of potentially mercy killing one of their own. Not to mention that the DW probably doesn't share the disarm codes to the watch station to others, even of His Holy Ordos. Maybe better without a PC GK, maybe better as a DW only concept, but a concept where the two may meet, and may end up working together in some capacity.

From Oblivion's Edge:

'Among the gathered Imperial commanders, one tall, lean man stands ahead of the rest. As you approach he greets you. “I am Fleet Captain Arast Cobb and I am honoured to by your presence, my lords. It is not often my vessel has been graced by warriors of the legendary Deathwatch.”'

Author's blunder? Or are the top imperial commanders in the know?

Alex

ak-73 said:

I would say a Fleet Captain would be in the know. Some one of that rank would be involved in most of the planning and strategy sessions involved in prosecuting any engagement his fleet is involved with and would probably have a hand in over all sector strategy.

Charmander, you have a point in a way. Yes, the GK and the DW could of course run accross each other on missions, but that is a long way from a GK actually being assigned to work with the DW, or vice versa.

ak-73 said:

It could easily be neither - the Jericho Reach has a comparatively large Deathwatch presence in its own right, given that it's home to a Watch Fortress and several Watch Stations (even if they aren't particularly easy to find if you're not associated with the Deathwatch), meaning that knowledge of them is more likely than it might be elsewhere, particularly amongst senior commanders of the various forces involved in the Crusade, simply because they're encountered more frequently.

Also note that in many cases, an Imperial force that has cause to fight alongside Grey Knights (that is, there's a large Daemonic incursion and your Guard Company happens to be there when the Grey Knights arrive) may well be executed or mind-scrubbed afterwards anyway. A "No witnesses" policy certainly helps keep secrets.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Do you think a Watch Station would identify itself or its purpose to the Imperial Navy? Other than "Inquisition/Astartes, move on"? And given its history in the reach, the DW should have more than enough transportation capabilities, not relying too much on the navy.

It all seems possible, just unlikely.

Alex

@ Charmander.

You make a good point, I mean of all things in the Imperium the Deathwatch and Grey Knights are some of very few that get deployed on a single team basis. And bad intellegence causes things to get sent where they are vastly outnumbered. Hell I guess that's going to be the start of 50% of adventures.

But they'd still at least have a single unit sent. No one soldier, however good, is going to be sent out alone on any real mission. Sure, anything can happen, occasionally the lone survivor or someone cut off from his unit could turn up and just happen to run in to the Deathwatch but it's only going to be untill they get back to main force.

The most likely situation, in my eyes of course; A group of DW are on an IG battle line, one of a half a dozen across the front, are sent in to hit some specific enemy targets warned to call in all attacks and anything out of the ordinary (as much as that makes sense in this crazy war) and to do so alone. On edge they attack the alien site, a cluster of low buildings now scarred and cracked from the initial IG attacks. The Guard themselves have been ordered to stand down forming a cordon taking pot shots. It's easy to cross the ground to the building and resistance inside is unusually feirce, and into the central hall you can see why. Some filthy ritual was taking place, it's not possible to say if it went right or wrong, horrible twisted creature swarm over the area and the bodies or painted xeno's, creatures not of the this dimension. It's though to keep composure but the order was clear you draw back and Vox the fleet above. There is a loud bamf, from the court yard. Five figures an massive steel armour flickering in the candles stand there. Already they are firing their wrist mounted bolters with a lound cracks and swinging their massive glaives.