Under the traits natural weapons give 1d10 + Strength Bonus damage. It may not parry, and counts as primitive.

I don't see any mention of what Improved Natural weapons give.

So for example, If Hormagaunts had Trait: Natural Weapons (Scything Talons) does this mean-

Their attack would be WS, (1d10+5 R; Pen 3) which also adds their Strength bonus for the damage, is unable to parry and counts as primitive (non-primitive armor gets double AP before pen).

I'd imagine that Improved Natural Weapons means they are no longer considered primitive? This is just my guess. Does this also mean they are allowed to parry?

Tidomann said:

This is the only difference between improved and regular natural weapons.

Thanks Bilateralrop for the response. Any chance that you recall where about it was? I don't doubt it, I just can't seem to find the rule myself.

Tidomann said:

Improved Natural Weapons, as already noted, means that the creature's has Natural Weapons which do not count as Primitive - this is in the Trait's entry on page 132.

However, in the case of the Tyranid creatures, their 'natural weapons' have specific stats, in the table on page 373. Those should be used instead of the normal damage, pen, etc for Natural Weapons - so a Hormagaunt's Natural Weapons don't deal 1d10+SB damage, but rather 1d10+2+SB damage, Pen 3.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Haha, I think we discovered an error in the book. On page 132- I see "It counts as being armed even when not wielding weapons. It's attacks deal 1d10 points of damage plus its Strength Bonus. The creature may make attacks with its Natural Weapons using its Weapon Skill, though it cannot parry with its natural weapons, nor can it be disarmed- unless of course, you hack off its limbs! Natural weapons always count as primitive."

What confused me there is that on the trait description it gives NO description of "Improved Natural Weapons."

On page 371, under the Hormagaunts stats there is a line that says-

Weapons: Scything Talons (1d10+5 R; Pen 3).

Yet as you noted in the table on page 373, their damage is (1d10+2 R; Pen 3).

Wonder which one is correct?

Wow, it was on page 132- right infront of me. For some reason I didn't see it. I figured it would be with Natural weapons.. I feel so dumb lol

Tidomann said:

Well, the (1d10+2 R; Pen 3) listing on the chart would be (1d10+5 R; Pen 3) when you add their Strength Bonus of 3. The chart is formatted for the weapon, regardless of tyranid using it (I think) while the listing for Hormagaunts includes their own particular Strength Bonus.

Brother-Sergeant Cloten said:

Indeed. They're both correct, because weapon listings in NPC profiles contain all relevant permanent modifiers to those attacks (such as Strength Bonus for melee weapons, or the Mighty Blow or Mighty Shot talents). Or at least, they're supposed to - sometimes mistakes are made, though this isn't one of them.

Good call, thanks for all the help guys