So: every Astartes starts their missions with their own standard issue gear. This is made up of their starting gear for their class and whatever they might have from 'Signature Wargear' talents. My question is this:

When using renown to requisition extra arms/equipment: is that in addendum to the standard issue gear or do they replace similar items? So if the Tactical Marine Battle Brother Sydgar decides to bring a Storm Bolter on his next mission does he get a Storm Bolter AND a normal Boltgun or does the Boltgun get left at home?

Questionable Methods said:

In my opinion - and this is the way I'll be running it when it becomes relevant - additional requisitioned items do not replace or supplant any of the Marine's standard issue equipment. However, there is a practical limit to how much a Marine can carry on his person, and consequently he may choose, or be required, to leave items behind temporarily while using a requisitioned item; Terminator Armour is a good example of this, as the Marine can hardly be expected to carry around his Power Armour while stomping through a Space Hulk in a suit of Tactical Dreadnought Armour. With weapons, certain situations may allow the Marine to bring along more than he could personally carry - the kill-team may have the support of a Rhino, Thunderhawk Gunship or other transport vehicle that they can store some additional equipment (as well as more ammo) in.

My opinion is that you can deploy with:
1 Heavy or Basic weapon
1 Pistol
1 Close Combat Weapon (CCW)

or

1 Basic
2 Pistols
1 CCW

or

2 Pistols
2 CCW

or

1 Basic
2 CCW

ItsUncertainWho said:

I've got a question for you all. If I choose to trade-in standard issue wargear for an upgrade, do I just pay the difference? I am not talking about any signature wargear a character may or may not have. I am specifically talking about the wargear a Space Marine gets just for being a Space Marine.

Here's an example situation. The character is a Deathwatch Tactical Marine with a Respected renown ranking. His starting wargear includes an Astartes bolter with fire selector. Given the amount of requisition he has available, he is able to an Astartes Combi-Weapon with fire selector and wishes to do so. Since it doesn't make sense to bring both a bolter and a Combi-Weapon, he wishes to not take the bolter.

My problem is in the requisition math. Does the Tac Marine pay the full cost of 15 for the Combi-Weapon, or does he subtract the req cost of the Bolter and only spend 10 req?

And in case anyone is wondering, I am assuming that the people in charge of the armory have the ability and authority to take the fire-selector from the bolter and attach it to the Combi-weapon, so the cost of the fire-selector is moot in either case.

Somewhat of an extension of the question in the previous post.

If a tac marine wants to req an exceptional bolter, how is that handled? Does he have to req a whole new exceptional Bolter or can he pay the difference, due to already having a common Bolter as standard wargear?

What about Librarians and higher craftmanship Force Weapons? They're more expensive, so will cost more to req higher quality. Is it plausible to let them spend 50 req just to get a MC one, instead of 25, being the difference, to upgrade it?

I would say no, for several reasons.

• A) The bolt pistol has a req of 5, and is specifically stated that that is for additional weapons beyond the standard issue. Other items in the armory, like power armor, have no req cost, so you could trade in some equipment but not others. And other things, like grenades, have a req rating for 'unusually high quantities' which would make them difficult to 'exchange.' How would you determine the 'worth' of these items?
• B) Each player's class determines their base loadout, which results in an imbalance of how much 'starting req' a player can get. A Devestator can turn in his HB for 20 req and his pistol for 5. The tac does his bolter (5), pistol (5), his free ammo selection (he takes dragonfire for 28 req), and his fire selector (5). So the dev can only get 25 free req but the tac can get 38, or 12 more, which isn't chump change (even if the FS is only 2, which I seem to think might be the case, this is still 9 more req, which is still significant).
• C) The amount of req a KT of 5 could generate in a pool for a mission by 'turning in' standard issue equipment would be too high, giving you too much good stuff given the mission parameters (IMHO). If the designers wanted you to start with a starting requisition pool to me it seems like you'd just create a base pool for each marine, then add to the pool based on the mission parameters and do away with standard issue equipment alltogether.
• D) Items are turned in after the mission, regardelss of if they were used or not- no holding onto that vortex grenade you never threw for next time. That, to me, says items in the req pool items are treated completey separately than your own wargear.
• E) The base loadout, according to the fluff, is your personal wargear you bring from home, and I don't think most marines would want to treat it like a used car and swap things in and out. To do so would indicate it's being put up as some kind of wierd collateral and could in theory be loaned out to another kill team, which I'm not sure would sit all that well with folks.

If you want a new item you don't start with, you have to req the whole thing. If you want it to become your standard issue, make it signature wargear.

As a caveat, I'd allow players to 'upgrade' their standard load-out quality-wise without buying anew.

So any assault marine could pay 5req to 'upgrade' his standard chainsword with a mastercrafted one, instead of paying 10 points and leaving his standard one at home. Likewise, the Dev could use their signature wargear to mastercraft their existing heavy bolter.

On the other hand marines should not be allowed to 'lend' their personal wargear to others, even if it is 'outdated'. The tac marine will not 'loan' the librarian his bolter with fire selector after he goes and gets a storm bolter and can't carry the boltgun any more.

Interesting thought: Mastercrafted frag grenades for +2 damage for 1req? Who would allow that? Is there anything that says grenades and warheads cannot be mastercrafted?

I think issued wargear is simply that, gear that is issued to them. If they want a larger, better grade weapon I feel they should purchase it whole. Honestly the issue weapons are already of very good quality. If they want a mastercrafted bolter for every mission, then they are free to use signature wargear.

On the issue of mastercrafted grenades, why wouldn't they exist. After all, there is always the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.

BrotharTearer said:

In my opinion, you pay full price to exchance the Issued Item for a new one. Signature Wargear would allow you to either get a duplicate weapon or a better one. In essence you are "selling" your old weapon. My Tactical Marine has Signature Wargear (Heavy Bolter), If he wanted a better one, he would pay 33 Req for an Exceptional Heavy Bolter with a tripod or wait to pay the XP for Signature Wargear (Master) (Heavy Bolter).

Also, it is worthwhile in taking the Master version of Signature Wargear as you gain a bonus with that item.

I handle it pretty easy in my group, you have a ready available pool of items, it consists of your basic gear and any signature stuff you aquire (by whatever means). Other than that, you have to requisition stuff, other than mission critical gear provided by your watch captain. You can however requisition reasonable upgrades without having to requisition a completely new item (eg. for a melee attachment you dont need to requisition a new bolter).

Prospero_Cade said:

The thing with MC Force Weapons is that you can't get it without using the sig wargear (hero) talent. A bit of a blow to Librarians.

BrotharTearer said:

Unless the Epistolary's redundant gain of a force weapon is supposed to be a higher craftsmanship force weapon...

HappyDaze said:

Yes, or that.

Here is my biggest question. Everyone is seems to be talking about weapons and whatnot in this post. What is evreyone's idea for upgrading standard power armor?

Normal weaponry is easy cause there are still Req stats for them, however Power Armor isn't given a Req. What would you say is a good number for upgrading Power Armor to Exceptional or Master Crafted?

Since it's a multiple of 0, it costs nothing. Once you get to the needed level of renown it's upgraded at no cost.

Well, that's my super-optimistic answer.

muzzyman1981 said:

I consider Space Marine PA to be exceptional and master crafted PA is called Artificer.

Alex

ak-73 said:

They are obviously common. Pretty sure it says too. If not, everyone should be getting +1 AP vs first attack during the combat, or whatever the effect is.

BrotharTearer said:

What I was trying to say was: There is no such upgrading of PA in my game. Just as there is no further upgrading of Artificer armour.

(****! While just rereading the section, I discovered that players can adjust the roll on the PA history tabe by 1 up or down.
Why didn't anybody tell me before? )

Alex

ak-73 said:

I thought everyone knew that too ;P

ak-73 said:

Please note: this reply is purely based on how I interperated your response Alex.
You can't Req a suit of articifer armor. it must be acquired from Signature Wargear.

ak-73 said:

Hell, I go another step, and house rule that a player may pick one item off the history table that they don't want, and allow them to ignore it entirely, treating it as either the entry above or below. Because really, that's just cruel to give a devastator a armour history that lowers their BS, I mean, maybe its an interesting character concept, but why? And while yes, the standard 1 above or below helps avoid this, it may still mean that there may only be 2 reasonable choices. I prefer 3 choices.