AIM + BLOWTHROUGH

By Freeman, in Doom

So here's my question: how do the order "AIM" and "blowthrough ability" work together? Say one marine discards his AIM ORDER in order to (no pun intended) make an aimed attack with the chaingun. Can I re-roll JUST the first attack and then walk normally the attack, or can I re-roll the first attack AND every attack I walk into other enemies, meaning by that I can make up to three attacks re-rolling the dice in the same turn with just one order?

In addition: I know I can walk a shotgun shot 2 times through a mancubus, demon, hellknight, cyberdemon, as far as I have line of sight, ammo, etc. But can I walk the chaingun three times through any of them, meaning by that I target spaces A, B, then A again , for it's an adjacent space to B??

Freeman said:

So here's my question: how do the order "AIM" and "blowthrough ability" work together? Say one marine discards his AIM ORDER in order to (no pun intended) make an aimed attack with the chaingun. Can I re-roll JUST the first attack and then walk normally the attack, or can I re-roll the first attack AND every attack I walk into other enemies, meaning by that I can make up to three attacks re-rolling the dice in the same turn with just one order?

In addition: I know I can walk a shotgun shot 2 times through a mancubus, demon, hellknight, cyberdemon, as far as I have line of sight, ammo, etc. But can I walk the chaingun three times through any of them, meaning by that I target spaces A, B, then A again , for it's an adjacent space to B??

Sorry, I meant I can walk the shotgun one space (not 2 times), thus hitting large monsters twice. The question is: what about three times, targeting your first space again on the third attack?

Nah, walking it back into the first space won't work, that was clarified in the FAQ. With blowthrough, you can attack each space only once.

Intuitively, I'd say that the aimed first attack uses up the aim order (since the second attack is, as the FAQ states, individual and has its own LOS and range checks and ammo useage and everything) - but I'm not absolutely certain about this one.

The aim order can only be used once, so you may use it with your first attack or you can decide to save it and use it with one of your blowthrough attacks.

I am not sure, I have always played that you can't attack the same space twice, but with friends we played that a blowthrough attack can be walked back to the original space. So it is really up to you. A lot of us play with different house rules.

Hm, I just looked it up in the FAQ, and indeed there's nothing in the blowthrough clarification there that settles this for good. As "The attacker cannot make multiple blow-through attacks against the same target during one attack" from the rulebook is negated by the FAQ, and it wasn't explicitly said in the FAQ that no space may be targeted twice.

So I guess it's possible after all?

I would say blow-through can be walked back to its starting space, after walking it into a second adjacent space. I found nothing in the rulebook that prohibits it.

Does this mean that if you lose your last ammo token on the first roll of a blow-through attack, you cannot then walk your fire to a second space? Meaning that with a shotgun, if the first attack roll misses and costs the marine his last bullet, he can't use the weapon's blow-through even though it simulates the shotgun's wide blast?

If this is correct, then we would basically treat each blow-through roll as a separate attack, and in that case, the Aim order would only apply to one attack roll.

Which leads to the other question - does the Aim order have to be used on the first attack roll the marine takes after placing the order? Again I see nothing in the rulebook or errata that says yes or no either way.

But following the rules literally, a marine can place an Aim order marker, then hold on to that order marker until 1) he takes at least 1 wound, 2) he moves at least 1 space, OR 3) he discards the order marker to reroll an attack. It says nothing about the attack having to be the first one after placing the order. So - as long as he doesn't get hit and doesn't move, he can sit on that space for a few turns and blast away at invaders, and save the Aim token for one attack later on.

WizardHowl said:

I would say blow-through can be walked back to its starting space, after walking it into a second adjacent space. I found nothing in the rulebook that prohibits it.

Does this mean that if you lose your last ammo token on the first roll of a blow-through attack, you cannot then walk your fire to a second space? Meaning that with a shotgun, if the first attack roll misses and costs the marine his last bullet, he can't use the weapon's blow-through even though it simulates the shotgun's wide blast?

If this is correct, then we would basically treat each blow-through roll as a separate attack, and in that case, the Aim order would only apply to one attack roll.

It is correct, so yeah, that's my line of reasoning for saying that aim only counts for one hit as well. And, if we suppose it's a double-barrelled shotgun, it's perfectly possible to have only one barrel working if you have just one bullet left cool.gif

WizardHowl said:

Which leads to the other question - does the Aim order have to be used on the first attack roll the marine takes after placing the order? Again I see nothing in the rulebook or errata that says yes or no either way.

But following the rules literally, a marine can place an Aim order marker, then hold on to that order marker until 1) he takes at least 1 wound, 2) he moves at least 1 space, OR 3) he discards the order marker to reroll an attack. It says nothing about the attack having to be the first one after placing the order. So - as long as he doesn't get hit and doesn't move, he can sit on that space for a few turns and blast away at invaders, and save the Aim token for one attack later on.

Nope - your 3) is wrong. The token is discarded before the dice are rolled, to make the attack an aimed attack and allow a reroll later on. So yeah, it is possible to hold on to the aim token, but it's not possible to roll first and decide "this was an aimed attack, I can reroll" after the fact.

haslo said:

Nope - your 3) is wrong. The token is discarded before the dice are rolled, to make the attack an aimed attack and allow a reroll later on. So yeah, it is possible to hold on to the aim token, but it's not possible to roll first and decide "this was an aimed attack, I can reroll" after the fact.

My bad :) thanks, I should have re-read that part!

haslo said:

Hm, I just looked it up in the FAQ, and indeed there's nothing in the blowthrough clarification there that settles this for good. As "The attacker cannot make multiple blow-through attacks against the same target during one attack" from the rulebook is negated by the FAQ, and it wasn't explicitly said in the FAQ that no space may be targeted twice.

So I guess it's possible after all?

The problem here is that the rules are ambigous about the term "target" - it is defined as the single figure occupying the space targeted by the attack, but often used in a way that it is clear that only the targeted space is meant. I think here it refers to the targeted space, and means that no space can be targeted multiple times during a series of blow-through attacks, which would mean that the F.A.Q. doesn't negate the original rule, and just clarifies it.

Also note the word "seem" in the F.A.Q. (blow-through):

"(Yes, this does seem to conflict with a sentence in the rulebook, but that was due to poor wording.)"