Quesitons about being Killed - Robert Baratheon and Ser Davos Seaworth

By CanadianMohawk, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

I received this game for christmas and a couple questions came up that i could not find the answers for. Both are related to being killed.

Let's say my opponent plays an event that raised his plot's claim value from to 2 to 3 and he wins a military challenge against me. In such an event, I must kill 3 characters. Let's also say that my Robert Baratheon Character has Lightbringer on him as well as a duplicate. Let's also say I have 2 gold in my pool.

1) Are both of these options a legal play for me?

a) Ser Davos Seaworth: Kill him, then pay 1 gold to save him. Kill him again then pay my last gold to save him. Kill him a third time and return him to my hand.

or

b) Robert Baratheon: Kill his duplicate then Kill Him again and kneel Lightbringer to save him. Lastly, Kill Ser Davos Seaworth and either pay the 1 gold to save him or put him back into my hand.

Another question;

2) When a character is Killed and then saved, does that character loose any power it has gained through renown or some other means? example, Robert Baratheon has 2 power, he is killed, but is then saved by Lightbringer. Is the power lost?

Last Question:

3) If a character is standing when he (or she) is chosen to be killed and then is subsequently saved, does that character become kneeled? Example: Robert Baratheon is standing and so is the lightbringer attachment. I choose to kill him to pay for loosing a military challenge and then kneel lightbringer to save him. Does that also kneel Robert?

thanks for your help!

I forgot another killing related question..

4) If a card says that a character "can not be killed", does that mean:

a) I can not choose that character to pay for a lost military challenge.

b) I can choose him to pay for it, but he is not killed (automatically saved).

OR

c) I can choose him to pay for it, but since I chose him anyway, he is killed.

1. None of those scenarios are viable options. Whenever an effect, including high military claim, kills more than one character, you must choose all the characters that are to be killed for the effect BEFORE any saves can be used. After you indicate which characters the effect will kill, you move on to saves. Since a card cannot be chosen more than once for a single killing effect, the result of all this is that you only need to save a character once from a single effect. Essentially, you choose all characters for the high claim and they die together. You cannot go backwards and choose more claim targets after saves have already been played.

So, in your scenario of a lost 3-claim military challenge with Robert (2 potential saves from a dupe and Lightbringer) and Davos (with 2 gold in your gold pool, 3 potential saves), you can only choose each of them once for the military claim. So if you have a 3rd character out that can be chosen for claim, you MUST choose that character as the 3rd claim target (and it will die if there are no saves available for it). But if these 2 characters are the only ones you have out, you do not have a 3rd character to choose for claim, so the 3rd kill is "wasted" (the same way that if you lose a 1-claim military challenge with no characters in play, nothing dies).

There is a shorter explanation of this on p. 22 of the rules book under "high-claim military challenges."

2. No. If a character is saved, it was never killed and never left play in any way. So there are no changes to it or any attribute (power, STR, icons, etc.) unless the save effect specifically says there is.

3. No. Characters and their attachments are knelt independently of each other (unless otherwise specified). So kneeling Lightbringer does not kneel the attached character. And kneeling the attached character (say to attack or defend) does not kneel the attachment, so it can be used to save the character even if the character is already knelt. Other than that, as said above, saving a character does not automatically change it or any of its attributes (like standing/kneeling status) unless the save effect specifically says so.

4. If a card is "cannot be <something>," you are not allowed to even TRY to do that something. So if a character cannot be killed and you lose a military challenge, you are not allowed to choose it to die for claim at all. That means other characters cannot "hide" behind a cannot be killed character when you lose a military challenge, but if the only character you have when you lose a military challenge is CBK, you are not forced to kill it, either.

great! thank you so much for your answers.