Hi there.

I was a bit unimpressed by the stats written for the termie's assault cannon. I mean, they aren't all that much different than the heavy bolter. While the description of the weapon uses the word "explosive" regarding the ammunition, the damage is listed as impact. I always though (probably in error) that it fired bolt rounds. The rate of fire is also unimpressive for a weapon with several spinning barrels that is supposed to chew infantry into pudding.

Now I don't want to unbalance the game, but such a top-tier weapon should at least be worthy of it's renown/aquisition requirements. I'm going to house rule that the assault cannon has the Storm property to reflect its high rate of fire. What do all of you think of this? Should it be beefed up even more? Should it have explosive damage like a bolt or maybe higher piercing?

Well, technically, it is slightly stronger than a heavy bolter (although not being X damage does hit effectiveness vs. hordes). And yes, it does not (nor has not) fired bolter rounds.

The thing to still realize though, is that it is the high RoF heavy weapon available to terminators. You can't use a heavy bolter with terminator armour.

Personally, I would give it devastating(1) to represent its morale effects, maybe give it tearing, but it'll probably be a while until I let my players advance to that point.

I've just given it Tearing & Storm. I think this is more than enough to emulate the devastating hail of fire an Assault Cannon spews out (I am and have always been a HUGE fan of the assault cannon! )

I posted an alternative - a quite fearsome alternative, in fact, on a previous thread. It's quoted below:

N0-1_H3r3 said:

I'mnot sure I like Overheats on a weapon that is apparently designed to keep cool. That is why it has multiple barrels, right?

i like the idea of storm and possibly tearing

HappyDaze said:

Yes and no. It has multiple barrels so that it won't turn into slag in 0.5 seconds, but this beast is still spitting out over 1,000 rounds per second (assuming it's comparable to modern day gatling guns.) 8-10 barrels will still have a net increase in heat at that rate and will need to shut down eventually, assuming the source of bullets doesn't run out first, that is.

Weapons of this caliber need more than just multiple barrels to keep cool for extended periods, they need actual cooling systems. Now, real weapons in the real world may very well have such extended cooling systems - especially if they're vehicle-mounted - but remember that humanity in the 40k universe has been through a second Dark Age and forgotten how a lot of technology works.

We know for a fact they've forgotten how to make new suits of Terminator armor (it's been mentioned in the fluff - that's why the ones they have are reserved for chapter veterans) so perhaps they've forgotten how to make compact cooling systems as well, or even forgotten the need for them. When a gun jams in the 41st millennium, the marine doesn't just unjam it with a little doohickey. He performs a ritual prayer to the Machine God and prays that his gun will unjam. The ritual probably involves a doohickey and looks a lot like the process one uses to unjam a weapon, but it's a question of how these people think as much as what their technology can do.

HappyDaze said:

It isn't necessarily overheating, though the end result is similar - damage to the wielder from a particularly dangerous malfunction. In earlier editions of 40k, Assault Cannons had a risk of catastrophic malfunction, misfiring due to strain on the motors or ammo feed.

That said, the weapons themselves have always been described as producing tremendous amounts of heat, even accounting for their design and the heat-resistant materials the barrel assembly is made of, which still have to be replaced on a mission-by-mission basis because of the wear and tear of use.

Drake56 said:

Remember, they already have Tearing; it's not something that needs adding.

My house ruled Assault Cannon has Devastating (1), Storm, Tearing, Recharge (special)

I had read the tread NO-1 referenced, which is what helped me come up with the houserule in the first place.

I was messing round with a special Jam rule, thinking of something similar to the effects of Vengeance rounds... now, i personally like extra rules, this is what I've come up so with far with,

Assault Cannon Jams on 96-100 as normal (no damage to bearer)

Recharge (special)

If Assault Cannon is given (X) round(s) to cool down, it will only jam on a 96-100 (no damage to bearer)

The firer may choose to continue shooting without allowing the the assault Cannon to cool down, the weapon will jam on a 91-00 with the overheat rule.

The Jam % increases by 5 for every consecutive round of shooting taken after the first (e.i 2 rounds = 91-00, 3 rounds = 86-00 and so on, MAX 61-00) every jam after the first is treated with the Overheats rule. the Jam % decreases by 5 for each round the the Assault Cannon allowed to cool down.

X = number of consecutive rounds in which the assault cannon was shot

I was thinking of adding razor sharp (to represent rending from TT) to the list, but, with a maximum of 20 hits at 3d10+6 Pen 6, it starts to get a little obscene lol

broutefoin said:

Minor note, but the chance for a jam varies by rate of fire - Semi-auto and Full-auto attacks have a greater chance of jamming than single shots (except in the case of Unreliable weapons, or weapons that Overheat; the chance there is the same regardless of rate of fire).

N0-1_H3r3 said:

thanks, fixed

Asked in another thread before I saw this one, but how about reloads for an assault cannon? Mag size is listed as 200, but I would assume the Dev would be using the ammo backpack, giving a size of 250. Can you get a 'magazine' of 200 Kraken rounds for an Assault cannon (cost of 5+15(?) Req?)?

the Assault Cannon is not a bolt weapon, so you unfortunately can't get special ammo for it

Radomo said:

Remember, the assault cannon is mounted, and therefore only used by terminator armour. Which I don't believe uses the ammo backpack. Just assume you have enough, but require occasional reloads.

If you were a nice GM you could allow the specialty SP ammo found in DW and RT to be used in the Assault Cannon.

Personally I like the idea of adding Devastating (1) but instead of Felling, I had thought about adding Concussive.

As KommissarK said, Termies don't use backpack ammo supplies.

on the subject of Terminator Backpack Ammo Supply... i

www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m500553a_99120101079_SpaceWolvesTerminatorsMain2_873x627.jpg

ive always loved this model because of the feed belt, so, i would be inclined to let my players get a backpack supply, i would probably tweak the rules a little though.

broutefoin said:

That is the only Terminator w/ Assault Cannon model that has a belt feed. The normal box set doesn't have one and the Space Hulk box doesn't have one, just power cables.

I know this is the only model with a belt fed assault cannon, it doesnt change the fact there is one, and if my players want to use a backpack ammo supply, i will allow it.

broutefoin said:

Agreed. This is the Deathwatch . They tend to have access to more interesting and specialized toys then the "regular" Astartes.

-=Brother Praetus=-

broutefoin said:

borithan said:

The early stats for Dark Heresy bolters didn't have Tearing. Maybe this is for someone that doesn't use the errata?

Space Monkey said:

I am going to have to start doing this in my games.

In the Warhammer 40K rules the Assault Cannon is shorter ranged than the Heavy Bolter (24" verses 36"). The 24" Assault Cannon range is the same as a standard Boltgun.

I think that I will give the Assault Cannon the Storm and Devastating qualities and cut their range from 150m back to 100m. This makes them a nasty assault weapon.

After going back over the 5th ed rules for 40k i realized there are different profiles for the Assault Cannon in the same book! The one for space marines lists is as having Rending and indeed a shorter range than the Heavy Bolter but a higher number of hits. Felling + Tearing is really the best way to represent 40k Rending and I agree that the range should be cut to 100m . The rate of fire is fine on the Assault Cannon its the Heavy heavy bolter that should be at 8 not 10

The final profile as I see it.

Assault Cannon

Class: Mounted

Range: 100m

RoF: -/-/10

Dmg: 3d10+6 X

P en: 6

Clip: 200

Rld: 3 Full

Special: Tearing, Felling (1)