Greetings!

As the thread name suggests, I'm rather green to GM'ing, so there are a few matters I'd like some advice on!

First :

I'm somewhat worried by the potential over-effectiveness of one of my players. He's not necessarily a problem (yet), I just want to double check that everything's "in working condition". My group have completed their introductory campaign, and we're about to move on to The Gathering Storm, so if I'm going to change anything, or enforce anything, I have to do it now.

He's a Rank 1 Pit Fighter Dwarf (with just two advances under his belt) with a great weapon, wearing a breastplate and chain. Now, I've read through the other thread pertaining to an over effective Slayer career, and taken notes of some things, but there are two specific things I'd like to put forward that weren't covered, or weren't related to that thread: Firstly, this PC has two expert dice in every attack roll (not counting the several fortune die he gets each roll as well) - one from training weapon skill at character creation, and a second from spending one of his advances on further training of Weapon Skill. I just want to make sure - do you only spend a single advance on training a skill a second time? Or is there something else I've mixed up? I don't mind if it's legal, I'm just rather... taken aback at how effective those two expertise dice are in his rolls.

Secondly, and this is the main concern, is that the player is using the Way of the Sword cards. Obviously, these are designed for use with the Sword Master, but the errata does state that those skills aren't restricted to the Swordmaster, so I can't stop the player from choosing them (he currently owns all of them save one). Is there any real problem in allowing the Pit Fighter dwarf access to these cards? Will it create any imbalances or break things? Will it be any different to just having a normal Swords Master?

Second:

I really want to create a campaign that incorporates Chaos Warriors (I seem to find them rather appealing, both aesthetically and lore wise), and I notice on the Tome of Adventure's Bestiary entry for Chaos Warriors, that they have a soak of 3, and a defence of 2. However, considering they are wearing full plate armour, as well as using a tower shield, I'm rather tempted to incorporate them with the resultant combined soak of 6 and defence of 3. Would that be overkill? Are they deadly as they are? I'm not planning on using an army of them, just having the odd one leading a pack of Marauders, in a story that has several of them overall. I'm also tempted to give them Improved Parry and Improved Block, based on the concept that they are hardened warriors exposed to constant battle. Am I getting ahead of myself? I mean, I know it's my campaign, and I can do as I wish, but I don't want to make a monster that the PC's can't kill, or don't enjoy fighting! I suppose I just want to convey the sense of how potentially lethal and frightening these guys are

Third:

Would it be fluff breaking to have a Tzeentchian cult manipulate, and even foster, a Nurglite cult for their own ends? (such as hampering a rival Tzeentchian cult?). While the two "factions" constantly work to undermine each other, I personally find the contradiction or paradox of a Tzeentchian cult fostering a Nurglite for their own ends cult very Tzeentchian in itself. Naturally, the scheme would involve "cleaning up" the Nurglite cult in the end, possibly by manipulating a 3rd Tzeentchian cult to move in and take care of it

Fourth:

How exactly does item quality affect a PC looking for a item in a market? I'm aware of the fellowship check, and that the item's quality affects the difficulty of the check, but does the player have to specifically state they want to look for a Superior Quality sword, and then make a completely new check if they then want to try and find a Regular quality sword? While I can understand the mechanics of that, it strikes me that while a character would look for a superior quality of an item, they would by process encounter the lower quality swords as well. In other words, it feels more comfortable to say, "you didn't find a Superior Quality sword, but you did find regular swords!", though I can't think of a good way to build a check around that.

On a related question, any suggestions on how often a PC should be allowed to check for an item? Only one check per item? Should they be allowed a check allowance, such as 3 checks per day, per PC? Again, I know it's up to me to decide, but I'm interested in how others have worked with this!

Thanks for any assistance and advice you can provide!

Welcome to the game, Kharrak.

First:

A. Characters can only train a skill as high as their rank. So, Rank 1 characters can only train a skill once, whether it's at character creation or with advancements. Level 2 training for that rank 1 pit fighter is a no-no. That's why he's so great in a fight.

B. Mechanically there shouldn't be any issue with a pit fighter using Way of the Sword cards. A number of GMs would require some kind of justification for using elven sword techniques (I am one of them), but it's not overpowered necessarily.

Second:

Enemies in the beastiary are "generic." Sometimes they don't come with the gear that you would want for them. In those cases, just replace the listed values with what they would be with the new gear. If you want your Chaos Warriors to have Full Plate, then use Full Plate stats instead of the listed soak and defense.

Third:

Any question that starts with "Would Tzeentch conspire to ..." can be answered with "yes."

Fourth:

Most of the time, you can just say an item is available or not without rolling. Very specific or rare items are exceptions, but most of the time you can just get by with common sense/"GM says it's there."

If you need a faster system for rolling for both standard and superior quality items, then just roll for standard, then roll a separate challenge die and apply its effects only for finding the superior gear. You won't get neat situations where the only sword available in town is the blacksmith's masterwork that hangs in his shop (and he doesn't want to sell), but it's fast and gets the job done.

Hope that helps.

Kharrak said:

Doc allready answered this, but since you seemed a bit unsure on that rule I thought I would just point out another pitfall you could run into that's a bit connected to this: If the character completes the Pit Fighter Career and takes the Dedication Bonus, he ONLY gets a specialisation for each skill he trained during play. Which means he will NOT be able to get a Weapon Skill specialisation, for example, since he allready bought that at character creation and can't train it again until he's spent more than 10 xp.

This will, of course, not apply if the player decides to jump back and forth between careers. If he changes to Thug, for example, and then goes back to Pit Fighter later, he will be able to train Weapon Skill as soon as his total of XP spent is over 10. And when he then takes the Dedication Bonus (if he does) he will be able to get a Weapon Skill specialisation.

i'm a big "no-no" fan on the Action Card with a Special trait beeing allowed to anyone anytime. I cannot see a Dwarf using High-Elf combat techniques, it has no sense at all. It would be an insult in the eyes of Elves and a disgrace to Dwarves, worthy of an entry the in the book of grudges ... I also doubt that after creation + 2 Advances he has 9 out of 10 Way of the Sword acquired (Max would be 4 at creation + 2 Advances = 6)

I ruled a couple things : some Elite racial Career are not Basic careers (Ironbreaker, Wardancer, Waywatcher, Sword Master) as for exemple the Witch Hunter is. I also allowed only the Races that the trait is linked to to be able to buy the action : Dwarves can buy Ancestral & Slayer trait Cards (for 2 Advances) and if from the right Career they don't pay as non-Career (thus paying 1 Advance). Only Woodies can buy Watcher & Ritual Dance cards, Human for Judgments, High Elves fo Way of the Sword. You get the idea.

If you allow anyone to take anything, especially in your case where a Dwarf has High Elf techniques, that feel sooooo bad, it's like playing DD4. You can choose anyting anytime whatever the World setting is, even if it makes no sense.

You could have exceptions, but they will be story driven. Like dwarves allowing a human to learn some Ancestor / Slayer action(s). The human would have to be worthy of that honor, thru high feats or whatever.

OKAY!

Thanks for the replies, they all helped. Really glad I got that expert dice issue sorted out, those rolls were scaring the bajesus out of me...

And thanks, Razlar, for that clarification - it's something I've not thought about, so I'm grateful for the forewarning!

In regards to the Bestiary entry for the Chaos Warrior, thanks for the advice! I'm more concerned over if giving the Chaos Warrior the stats for Full Plate Armour and a Tower Shield would just be too overwhelming for rank one players, though. I'm aware that the bestiary entries are guidelines, and that I can alter them, but I don't want to go too far!

I suppose it would help if I described my group: a Wardancer, a Pit Fighter, a Watchman, and a Celestial Wizard. So, in general, a very combat orientated group (which means I'm rather interested to see how the more socially orientated campaigns will treat them..). This suggests to me that pumping up enemies may work fine, but while it's true I'd like to convey the danger of a Chaos Warrior, for instance, I don't want to kill them through it!

In regards to the Way of the Sword issue: Okay, so it boils down to it being fine mechanically, but an issue lore wise - and I respect lore issues tremendously. I'll have a talk with the Dwarven player, though unless he comes up with an amazingly good excuse to use them, I'll probably take them out. While a human learning Dwarf or even Elven techniques may be passable, I agree that the situation of a Sword Master passing on his or her knowledge onto a dwarf is extremely flaky territory. It was an oversight on my part - though I'm aware of the nature of Sword Masters, I saw the Way of the Sword techniques as a general sword technique, instead of a technique associated with the High Elf arts, which is why I okay'd them being used by the Dwarf in the first place. Feeling rather relieved that I asked about it

Cwell2101: about the number of Way of the Sword cards... you made me panic there! To be clear, he had five of them, with supposedly one left over. I was running around panicking that I'd lost some cards, but I found the rest, so you were correct to be suspicious. Bad organisation on my part, I'm still trying to find a way to store cards neatly!

Kharrak said:

For the future, you might consider taking out any action cards you don't think fit for the group and keep them separate. The players won't miss what they never knew was there

And it makes it easier for them to slect new actions if the card stack is a bit thinner.

I would like to add, that no rule/errata or whatever it might be would ever be able to make me allow players to do/buy/get stuff/skills/actions that I found wasn't right for them.

This is the GM's world, the players are "invited" to explore it. It may sound bloody arrogant, but I consider my game/world my house, and I'm not gonna allow people inside with muddy shoes, no matter what the explanation might be

I've played games which were semi-run by the players (meaning them finding a rule in the rulebook, would override GM's decision), and it is NOT good (from my point of view). Not saying players can't have oppinions, they just need to voice them after the session ends, and not expect them to be the same as the GM's.

Is only fair really. The GM has to shift and turn his plot constantly to how the players react, hard work. If he also had to adjust it to players finding rules and such, it's suddenly double the work. It would be like if the GM suddenly said: "Your character is a female initiate named Berta now, she fancies strong men, please adjust your play accordingly".

And my players certainly knows better than to be pedantic about the rules, because they know I'll crush them so hard under the weight of rules, that their chars would die swiftly. Suddenly you roll for race, you pick 3 career cards, them being wounded means they attract bloodthirsty beastmen, etc...

I too am not a fan of stripping "way of the sword" or the various "saga" cards of their narrative connections to elf and dwarf etc.

If you're here just for the numbers of things, bleh, that's not roleplaying. Go wargame. I explained to a player who chose a "saga" card, " okay, you can have that as a human but you need to explain why you have a dwarven themed card - have you lived among them etc., give me the narrative - don't just look at the numbers and effects on cards. "

To each their own of course.

valvorik said:

That's a good idea. The Swordmaster cards could be explained by having the character befirend a Swordsmaster who agreed to train him in their combat style. Him being a dwarf though... I find it stretches my suspension of disbelief to the limit.

But generally speaking, it's a good way to keep the cards and still keep the RP flavour.

I might housrule that anyone not of the correct race that uses those cards have to add a Misfortune Dice to his pool to show that a combat style developed by and for a specific race will never be quite as effective for other races.

I'd say that if you and the player can come up with a valid reason for him having the cards you shouldn't care at all what other people think. It's your world, not some random forum posters

I think your explanation of Way of the sword cards being general sword techniques is perfectly allright. Maybe you could discuss with the player to rename the actions into something better thematically. Don't strip away the actions from the player against his wish in any case.

A buffed Chaos warrior is probably too much for a party of starting out characters. Maybe you could have him get wounded by something else before the fight, or put him in a tight spot as the fight starts.

gruntl said:

True, there's nothing really wrong with using them like that. It just seems to make the cards a bit more bland. One thing that's worth considering though: If someone else makes a character with the Swordmaster, Irobreaker, Trollslayer or Wardancer career that player might be a bit miffed when he realizes some other player has taken "his" cards. They would have to share the cards, or the new character would have to take normal cards instead of cards flavoured specifically for his character, and even if they share the cards the new players character will loose some of its uniqueness.

If you haven't read it yet, I might direct you to THIS DISCUSSION on the rules questions forum, where we talk about Action Card Traits for two pages. Just so we don't end up repeating the entire discussion again here.