I'm sure I'm just blind or something, but I can't for the life of me find where starting renown is determined. Help?

Ummmmm....unless the GM says otherwise probibly 0......just a guess

all renown is based on their experience as a deathwatch member. So unless you are starting at something higher then rank one it should start at zero.

I'm sure i saw a table where you roll for it.

which was odd as you could start with very high renown

chriscdoa said:

It wasn't a table to roll on. Just showing which renown stat relates to which renown rank. Page 140.

Alex

Yeah, would be good to have a renown/xp table though. For both being able to make starting chars with more than 1k xp, and be balanced, and to not let player xp get too ahead of their renown, or the other way around.

I'm just simply removing the renown requirements for Basic versions of typical Space Marine gear.

No renown requirements for:

Power Fist

Power Sword

Power Axe

Lascannon

etc.

Now, if you want a "Mastercrafted" version of a normal piece of gear, then I'm applying the renown requirements back to the said weapon.

Other things still maintain the renown requirements, such as:

Relics

Special Weapons (Conversion Beamer, Assualt Cannon, Mechanicus Power Axe, etc.)

Terminator Armor

etc.

Makes more sense to me this way.

It would have been nice if there had been an explicit "record your character's starting renown of 0" or something in the character creation section. >

Otherwise you could make starting renown 1d10 + Fellowship Bonus

Santiago said:

I like this. It inspires me. Maybe do (FB*2)+1d5 for starting Renown; +1 per every additional 1,000xp for characters starting out higher then base.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Love the idea. You have to be at least a little known to enter the deathwatch radars or be recommended for it. So a certain ammount of reknown should be given. For Astartes deeds are what matters and nobody will respect you unless they heard your name "oh you are Brother John that was in the battle of whatever". Maybe given by years of service like the service studs. You don't surevive in that field unless you are badass. And you should keep your reknown after you leave DW. Sure DW is supposed to be a secretive but it's also true they do interact every know and then with other chapters and your name is bound to go around, not in dettails BUT..

I believe that the whole point of starting out at renown 0 is that, while you may be a lauded hero back home, you are fresh meat in the Deathwatch. I have the distinct impression that the Renown stat is internal-only for the Deathwatch.

Xenoviel said:

Aye, same here. You might be a lauded hero back in the Blood Angels, but in the Deathwatch, you are just another Battle-Brother amongst others who have the same experience and reputation back in their parent Chapters, so you will have to prove yourself in order to become as respected and celebrated as you used to be.

I like the idea of either starting with your Fellowship Bonus ,1d5, or 1d5 + Fellowship Bonus in Renown. Sure the official stance is that previous service does not matter, but how could command not gauge respect from differing Battle-Brothers accomplishments in the past? I am sure some are more favored that others.

Xenoviel said:

Xenoviel said:

I concur. Starting gear is standard issue on every mission, beyond that they need to start saving up renown. I am also not a fan of allowing players to pool their renown together.

As far as 'they have to be known before entering the Deathwatch' I disagree. Maybe they would be known to other members of their Chapter, but I think with so many Chapters out there it is unlikely that everyone will hear about Brother Joe Shmo who fought the Battle of X. I also don't think the Deathwatch recruits specific people unless they've served in the Deathwatch before - its more likely the Deathwatch says we need X people and it is the Chapter's discretion on who to send.

Santiago said:

So even among Space Marines, there are those who managed to talk their way into a better position than others with equal (or slightly better) skill ?

Bilateralrope said:

Yeah ask Pedro Kantor

Two ideas for bonus Requisition Points (RP).

Make a Fellowship test.
If successful gain your Fellowship bonus + 1 per DoS in RP.
If the test is failed gain Fellowship bonus – 1 per DoF, Max penalty = 0 RP.

This could be used every mission to give the party a little edge.

As an alternative:

Make a Fellowship test.
If successful gain your Fellowship bonus + 1 per DoS in Requisition Points (RP).
If the test is failed you gain no bonus RP for the current mission and you cannot make this test again for the next 1 + DoF missions.

Questionable Methods said:

What page is this rule on?

Not renown but Requisition Points before the mission starts...

The game doesn't do a terrifically good job of representing the "reality" of Astartes equipment with the Renown Requirement. After all, in most Marine Chapters, some guy in the Tactical Squad can carry a meltagun or plasmagun. He doesn't even have to be the Sergeant (and, in fact, can't be!).

Renown requirements are artificial and a method to reward progression in the game. I'm not opposed to them, or in favor of them. I think the game could be run fine with Marines with a higher starting Renown, or by allowing the Renown requirements be ignored when purchasing Signature Gear (but not when purchasing the Signature Gear talent itself).

The system works fine to create the "advancement" system that is so prevalent with RPG games where PCs must start as novices and acquire significant skill, ability, and gear upgrades. Many players are so ingrained to expect this system that I think it is almost a default assumption for most game designers. It certainly isn't necessary.

I don't think that there would be anything wrong, or broken, with the system if you could have starting missions with a Devastator with a Plasma Cannon, an Assault Marine with a Power Fist, a Librarian with a Psychic Hood, a Tactical Marine with a meltagun, and a Techmarine with a Servo-Harness. Your adventures would have to be adjusted, either by making them more challenging, or by recognizing that such characters would probably treat most Veteran or Skilled Objectives for less well equipped characters as Novice Objectives.

Of course, the system also helps new PLAYERS, as it limits their choices and prevents them from having to learn and choose from a very wide variety of options while still gaining system mastery.

The thing is in TT what you can equip your army with also depends on the rank of the mini. A Battle Brother of an assault squad can be equiped with certain things while his sergeant can have a whole lot more items, then there are the veterans and the captains and the chapter masters.

DW has been designed to give players more freedom on that part and the ability for the group to decide on their own who was gonna lead them each mission instead of have 1 guy do it all the time because he's the sergeant. So they got rid of the ranks (kinda) but at the same time made it a little more complicated with the whole reknown/requisition thing. I like it this way don't get me wrong, I think the costs and requirements shoul be tweaked a little.

Brother Praetus said:

I quite like this as opposed to having the starting Renown at zero. I was statting out a Dark Angel Tactical Marine and I took the Signature Wargear Talent. If I'm lead to believe that starting Deathwatch Space Marines start off at "0" Renown, then I (as well as anyone else who would have liked to have taken this Talent) just wasted 500xp purchasing it.

But using a house ruled Fellowship bonus + 1d5 makes more sense both in game mechanics and storytelling. Like others have said, you may have lots of honour and accord back in your Chapter, but you're in Deathwatch now. However, just because you're a greenhorn in Deathwatch doesn't mean that your reputation doesn't precede you in some small manner, as Space Marines do recognize each others honor, prowess in battle, leadership capabilities and so on. You're just going to have to ramp it up a notch, strive harder, take it to 11...whatever.

SonofDorn said:

But even using that rule, you aren't Respected, so your available wargear is the same. You need 20 Renown to be Respected. Looking at the rules for earning renown, you're looking at 3-5ish renown per mission, plus any the GM hands out for extraordinary feats. That means you're looking at 4-6 missions before you get Respected enough to grab a power sword, etc. let alone a Relic. A bit much, IMO.

Radomo said:

4-6 missions sounds on par to me, to be honest. If it were any less than that, the Renown system would seem trivial and relics would be handed out in a grotesque Monty Hall fashion. Space Marines don't prove their worthiness overnight. But we're here to agree to disagree and I'm just voicing my opinion. if it fits the way you run your campaigns, then who am I to tell you otherwise. In the end, it's about having a good time.