I thought I'd start this topic in here, as I have a copy of the rulebook making it's way to me and our usual GM has asked that one of our normal group of players takes over the responsibility of being GM for Deathwatch.

Our RP group usually plays the previous version of WFRP (not the one with the funky dice) and we all really like it. I have quite a few questions about both being a GM for the first time and about how best to go about it in Deathwatch.

I've been reading my way through the free PDF missions from this site and am starting to get a general feel for how the game works, but am hoping for a bit of a heads up on certain things so I can make our first adventure in the world of Deathwatch as much fun as possible for everyone concerned.

I'll start off with a couple of questions and add more as I think of them. If anyone else is new to being a GM or to being a GM in Deathwatch, then any questions that they ask, and are answered here, I will put in the OP so that this post becomes a kind of FAQ (as long as the mods here are happy with that)

Anyway, here's my starting questions

• As the rulebook weighs in at a few hundred pages, which are the bits of it that I really need to make sure I know before I consider starting our first adventure?
• How much do the combat mechanics in Deathwatch differ from 2nd edition WFRP? i.e. are the principles similar and what do I need to look out for?
• Are the free PDF missions a good place to start for our first adventure? Even if so, are there any tweaks you can recommend to help ease us into the world of Deathwatch?

I think that will do for now, but I'll no doubt be back asking more questions soon and I hope others will too.

Actually I am going to be using those missions to start my campaign *ssshhhhhh don't tell my players =P*

They seem to me to be an excellent place to begin for both GM and players. Then I can segway into more, I've even made a ship out of Rouge Trader to replace the one lost, it's going to be kind of like the ship in Mass Effect 2 where it is their "base of operations" but doesn't do much beyond that (although I might let them use it occasionally to help with the mission).

spustard said:

The important bits? I think it would depend on who you ask and what the focus of your game is. Getting the mechanics down is pretty important- the rules for shooting (esp. autofire), hordes, opposed skill checks, degrees of success/failure, etc. can all be tricky and it's good to read them and get a firm grip before starting. Next I'd start to read and soak up the setting- while you can play your Marines in any way you want, if you want to be true to the themes of the setting, understanding the setting and basic psycology of the Marines is pretty important. If you run the free adventure, you can skip (for a short time anyway) parts on psykers and monsters, and probably the overall imperial organization (so long as you at least understand the role of the deathwatch so your players have some motivation)

I've not played WFRP but the combat system described in the sample adventure is, by and large, the combat system for Deathwatch. There are some minor differences and some additional tweaks here and there, but overall the core mechanic (roll a d100 with bonuses and penalties, fight individuals and hordes, etc.). Autofire, blast weapons, flame weapons, and special weapon qualities can all be a bit confusing the first time through.

IMHO the sample missions were a pretty good intro. One thing that is worth mentioning is DW is the elite, epic, high level, or otherwise über of the 40k lines, so the scale, etc. is much higher and can be a bit of a jump to get into. You're not starting as a serf that learns to use a sword, you're starting off as a seasoned veteran with decades of combat experience under their belt. You start with the equivalent of 13/14,000 experience.

As for being new to GMing, welcome and good luck. If you search these forums (and DH, RT, etc.) you can find all kinds of tips and tricks, but some of the more common ones I've found and use are:

1. Your goal is to make sure everyone is having a good time- fudge the rules where you need to to keep things rolling, but try to keep things fairly honest in order to keep a challenge (most players tend to like a challenge, a threat of failure, etc.). Don't be afraid to throw out parts of the adventure if it's slowing things down (some of the hordes can become old hat in the free adventures- don't be afraid to throw in a new turning point, and individual bad guy, or just remove some of the encounters all together to keep things fresh and interesting)
2. Be very flexible- your players won't ever do what you expect them to do, and will continually walk down the wrong path, ask the guy you've not statted out for help, kill the wrong person, and generally make a mess of all of your well laid plans. Be ready to improv and ready to adapt.
3. Get a list of names for NPCs ready ahead of time- like in the one above your players will ask random people what their names are, and havng a list of pre-generated ones will keep the setting alive, way more alive than if everyone is "Tom Thomson" or "Bob Bobson". It seems simple and stupid, but names and descriptions can go a long way towards keeping everyone in the mood.
4. Don't worry about grandious conspiracies and epic battles when you're first starting out. Large scale wars, deep and confusing plots, and dark mysteries are pretty difficult to come up with (especially when you're just starting out), and if you don't nail them they can turn to mush and player boredom as they get confused. Always remember riddles and tricks that may seem obvious to you can be dumfounding to the guy who didn't invent the question. Start small, let the players backgrounds help flesh out your stories, and keep things relatively simple until you think you have a firm grasp of the rules and your players- then start introducing extra bits and use the players actions and the like to create results in your universe. The players then feel that their contributions, actions, and personalities mattered and drove the conclusion of the stories, and they end up doing half of your work for you.

Hope that helps

Just because your players are space marines doesn't mean that they're the most deadly thing on the block, you, the GM, are. Make sure they remember that.

spustard said:

Deathwatch is a complex game and I think it's generally not even easy for people who have experience with Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader... that's because the Marines have so many skills, talents and traits and abilities that it can be initially overwhelming even for a more experienced GM.

If you and your players are willing to be patient in learning all of the intricacies of the game over a prolonged time, it's going to work. You will possibly end up overlooking quite a few times talents that would have changed the outcome of an encounter and such.

If you and your group are aware of that and are willing to take it into account, go for it. :-) But if you're less lenient or less patient, I would suggest that a more expeirenced GM takes the helm. At least initially.

Alex

double post due to furstrating quote system on these boards

Excellent stuff so far, thanks guys

These bits will go in the I'll move a couple of bits to the OP that I like:

Mutli-quoting seems to be a bit beyond me at the moment, so I'll just try this (after a dozen edits)

As for the rest of the advice, I think Alex's post of

ak-73 said:

would be the best for me to comment on, as it encompasses at lot of what was said by others.

Although my initial post may have given the impression that I'm looking for a quick way into the game, I can assure you I'm not (although I am itching to try it out). I just want to make sure that I make the first few nights of playing Deathwatch as enjoyable as possible for everyone involved. Knowing that the downloadable missions are actually a good place to start is very re-assuring, as they read well to me, but it's nice to know that they play well too.

The reason that I asked about the combat mechinics is that I'm very comfortable with how they work in WFRP 2nd ed, so it's nice to know if there are similarities, rather than bumbling into it completely blind. Do you think it would be worth me using some of the pre-made characters and fighting some staged battles on my own using various methods of fighting against various enemies so that I can get a better grasp of the fight mechanics before I GM our first story?

The group I play with are generally pretty good when it comes to learning the games and do have a lot of patience in our sessions. Before we even get started on playing the game, we are going to have an evening where we sit down and decide on character names/classes for everyone and start to put together their characters. I'm hoping by doing this that everyone will feel more of an affinity with their character, as well knowing what makes them good and what makes them not so good. It will probably be a couple of weeks after that before we kick off with the game properly.

Thanks for all your comments and advice so far and I look forward to more of the same

First you make them feel invincible, let them hack up some small hordes with no real pain.
After that have a mission go fubar, have their Thunderhawk/Drop pod been shot down, the squad scattered across the city.
No bring the real pain, well armed opposing troops, dangerous individuals foes, make them afraid.

BTW if you have DH or RT thing like the Rocket Launcher + krak grenade (RPG-7 like) are perfect weapon for enemies to bring the hurt to the marines in the ruins of the city where they have to accomplish their missions...

spustard said:

Look, it's been some years since I played WFRP (1st Edition) so I can't compare. What I am trying to say is this: for days people have been debating over a few threads how bolters are too powerful. All Space Marines have by default a trait that halves the Critical Damage though and I think these people did not take that rule into account - and these are probably quite experienced GMs (DH/RT).

You'll have no trouble with the rules themselves. It's the stacking bonuses, the exceptions, the another-ace-in-the-sleeve things that I think make the game complex. If you and your player don't mind forgetting some talents and traits, etc., you should be fine eventually.

Just be lenient on the players. I had to half the insane damage of the Genestealers in Final Sanction in the end or else they would have had no chance. Until both you and your players are familiar with all the rules, fudge the dice in secret so that everyone has fun.

Other than that, suffer not the xeno to live. ;-)

Alex

Being a new GM is quite tricky, because you can go one of 2 ways, letting the players win, or doing your best to kill the players, especially when playing with friends.

Here are some tips that I utilise when I run games either for mates or at geek fests (GameCons).

1. Know the rules you intend to use, and for Final Sanction have a grasp of combat, horde combat, oaths and squad/solo modes.

2. Take Control from the get go. If you are unsure of rules fineries don't use em, and make sure the palyers know your not using them, but will introduce them at a later point.

3. Don't get bogged down. Don't let any situation get bogged down into a trawl through the rulebook once you have actually started the game proper. Once the Marines are in action, that is what they should be (and this goes for any game).

4. Don't argue with the players. You are law, and you are also impartial. As such make a decision on the activity/action there and then and stick to it. If players push, say thats your call and we can discuss it at the end of the game session.

5. Don't spend to long on any individual player. Many players like to monopolies a GMs time with absolute trot and happily side track the adventure for their own goals. Spend no more then 10 minutes (tops) going over an indivdual players action. if the players split up, spend 5-10 mins with each one and flip back to the other team(s). This is also very good to do in combat, as the players out of combat don't sit round talking about TV, phones etc, and they feel involved.

6. Seat of Your Pants. If a player has a great idea, maybe one you didn't conceive, but it fits nicely, smile smugly as if they have caught on to your master plan. Allow them to follow said path, but make them feel it is a path you planned.

7. Make Notes and roll dice. Alway make notes, even if there is nothing to note, and roll dice randomly and say OK/right etc. This keeps players on their toes. No doubt they will ready weapons start looking around. Its good to mess with thier minds.

8. Dramatic Pause. Do one every now and then, and occasionally before something mundane. Again messes with the players minds.

9. NPCs. Try and play them the best you can, understand their motivations, desires, fears and of course loyalties. Mix them up, and give them life so they don't fell 2 dimensional.

10. Describe scenes, and fluff stuff when you can. the more in the lingo you are the better the game comes across. If the planet is rainy, make sure the players know that, and feel free to remind them. If it's decaying, make sure they know that. Don't forget to descibe the populace also, it all adds to a 3d feel to the game.

11. Don't worry about the system, it's the adventure that matters most. if it sounds good and plausible, allow it, if not don't.

To be honest I could go on, but that should be enough to get started

fom france

does it allows interaction with the other two games? it seem to stand so much appart.

the 8 spider said:

I'm actually planning on running a game that involves all 3 systems.

They will have DH characters that work for an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, who requisitions their RT characters to take his retinue across the stars, who then needs to call in their DW characters when things get out of hand.

Should be fun.

Also, to the OP, FatPob has a great breakdown there of what to do as a GM.

After GM'ing for so many years you'll develop your own style of GM'ing. I myself just throw out plothooks to see what the players like and run with.

From there, it's all just Seat of My Pants GM'ing... though to do this properly, you need a FIRM understanding of the game world to make things flow together like a living, breathing entity.

SpawnoChaos said:

The rules are interchangeable, balance is another issue. It can totally be done, but it would require a lot of work on the GM's part to make sure things don't break apart. That includes, IMHO, when the systems aren't sharing screen time at the same time. It can be very easy to have the DW characters feel far superior to anything that the other systems can do ("Man, if I only had my DW guy here instead of this lowly guardsman!"), so being careful to play to each strength while simultaneously exploiting the weaknesses would be a must. I tip my hat to anyone that pulls it off, and would actually love to hear tips and tricks from those campaigns when they finish up- it's an idea I'd love to follow up on but fear my writing skills would be lacking.

when a gm has to start looking at game balance (s)he needs to examine a few things

1. Players. are they her for the story or the munch

2. Players. do they care about other characters ot are happy with their lot

3. Mr Skill. does one character (in the remit of the story) get to do all the skill rolls.

4. Pregenned (made by the gm to have a part in the story (or not) and player genned (read min max)

Essentially what I am saying is do the players play to win, or play to be part of something greater. Now in some cases you just don't know, and therefore you play (in my mind) to the story and players get what they are given, whilst in others you know the players will shed buckets of tears cos Jed has 20 more stat points on his random rolls so they should have more skills to match it up (2 extremes I understand).

After all did frodo shed tears that Gandalf could **** a balrog, or Aragorn/LegoLand could nail orcs/baddies as soon as look at them.

In effect you need to strike a balance, this is true, but not making sure all characters are equal, just as long as Mr X doesn't get to do everything.

In doing this you have to make sure the story is strong enough, the world detailed enough and the people around robust enough for interaction so that all get equal measure in the game.

The rubbish non ombat merchat wants to score riches, and the bad space marine wants to smash Xenos. As long as one feeds the other, along with good interplay the gasme won't go wrong.

However if the entire session is building to the fight, or alternatively the session is all fight, then there will be players left wanting, hence the 5 (10) minute rule. If needed, split the group and give both sides their soup as it were.

ps thanks 8 spider for the nod

I think we're saying essentially the same thing in two different way. By "Balance" I'm not meaning to imply that all characters must be equal, I'm really saying all characters must get equal share of the spotlight, and the stories must play to each character's strengths and weaknesses properly. You sum it up better than I could with these words: "In doing this you have to make sure the story is strong enough, the world detailed enough and the people around robust enough for interaction so that all get equal measure in the game"

indeed we are charmander, it was late and i sort of misread your post.

" I tip my hat to anyone that pulls it off, and would actually love to hear tips and tricks from those campaigns when they finish up- it's an idea I'd love to follow up on but fear my writing skills would be lacking."

Final Sanction can so easily be adapted to incorporate all 3. First have the DH/RT characters on planet maybe working with the Inquisitor. Possible options are to play this is a mini seperate prior, or run dual time. Whilst the marines get briefed for the mission, and spend Requisition points have the DH characters lose their inquisitor, and build up to the direct civil riots that are occuring as it is written.

Then as theDH know more about whats going on, and as such may be able to direct the DW team when the guys turn up. Remove the encounter with the assasin morph character and sub in the DH characters for that bit.

Obviously when the fighting starts the DW take over.

If you want RT involvement simply have them fight the tyrinids in an epic space battle of hit and run. The team know whilst there is a ship in orbit there is hope of escape.

with some fine tinkering it should be possible to allow all 3 sytems to intergrate into this scenario.

Having read FatPob's contributions he has nailed and has covered all that I would have recommended to you.

Theonly thing I would add is that IMO the most challenging thing to new GMs is the vast and detailed Warhammer 40K Universe - if you can make the players feel like they are an active part of this then mission accomplished - I recommend that your players do a little reading up on the universe before playing - will save you alot of time explaining the basics.

You could put together an email / handout for them drawn from the wiki etc.

I have tried to paste in paragraphs to give you an idea but for some reason it will not allow me to paste...apologies for that.

Good Luck with your game.

Kevn's point is a good one- get them started on the background fluff. The wiki has been mentioned in other places but I'll toss it here for convenience: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page . As you are reading it (collectively) just remember that when planning your adventures out, if you're using a seemingly unknown tidbit of information, that your players may have it as well, so make sure they're the type of player that can easily separate player versus character knowledge.

I do like Kevin's idea of giving them a hand out or email though, then it's you that controls the info they get. The DW core book does a decent job with the overall background, and can give you terms and ideas to go look up and get further information on (for example, I'd encourage you and the players to read both the DW description of their chosen chapter as well as the wiki entry on it - the DW stuff, while good, feels a little light)